opinions sought on the TIS MFT PRO

[wildwest]

They got this new tester behind the counter at CEF, its a fancy looking MFT that says it does power quality analysis. Heres a link to the blurb.
So I haven't had any experience with TIS gear, to me the red and black makes it look a bit UniT MeterM8 ish but close up the thing looks quite good. Made in Italy. It's so new there are no reviews on the net, but there is one for sale half price at cash converters on ealing broadway.
Now I have a hankering to know what harmonic s to the 25th look like.
Should I keep on saving for a proper PQA. What does the wizdom of the mass mind have to say on the subject of TIS and fancy testers.

 

[wildwest]

My favorite brand of tester is evershed & vignoles but I take flukes out in field.

 

[buzzlightyear]

for that price you has well go for a Megger then a fiat car.
made in Italy .

 

[wildwest]

Italian cars are famous, some of them are quite good.

 

[MFS Electrical]

They got this new tester behind the counter at CEF, its a fancy looking MFT that says it does power quality analysis. Heres a link to the blurb.
So I haven't had any experience with TIS gear, to me the red and black makes it look a bit UniT MeterM8 ish but close up the thing looks quite good. Made in Italy. It's so new there are no reviews on the net, but there is one for sale half price at cash converters on ealing broadway.
Now I have a hankering to know what harmonic s to the 25th look like.
Should I keep on saving for a proper PQA. What does the wizdom of the mass mind have to say on the subject of TIS and fancy testers.

Dunno looks good but why especially when you make spelling mistakes etc in your own promotion up to the 25! ? Maybe the 25th! ? And a hareness for hands free operation what’s that then? Most online scams can be spotted with poor grammar and bad spelling maybe they are good but if they can’t get their own website right maybe not ps I’ve had tis test lamps for about 10 years now even ran them over with the van and they are still superb...

 

[buzzlightyear]

Italian cars are famous, some of them are quite good

a few years back the alpha romeroos were good at the time and started to look like a rust bucket after a bit .but would I trust a multi tester not heard about..no
Megger for me always ,sorry .

 

[wildwest]

I asked for opinions so no need to be sorry Buzz.
My trusty megger has been retired since the casing started coming apart after a nasty fall.
tis test lamp rugged and still superb after 10 years, cheers MFS

 

[Deleted member 26818]

My experience of Italian motorcycles and cars, is that the electrics are rubbish.
Would I buy an Italian MFT that’s more expensive than a Megger, Fluke or Metrel?
No!

 

[MFS Electrical]

I asked for opinions so no need to be sorry Buzz.
My trusty megger has been retired since the casing started coming apart after a nasty fall.
tis test lamp rugged and still superb after 10 years, cheers MFS

I’m liking the features on this but I’d still buy a megger any day of the week though...

 

[wildwest]

It is the power quality analysis features that interest me. I've been looking for a PQA to study on, but justifing the cost of a new one when it may not earn its keep for a while. I've been looking at the chauvin arnoux pel103 as well.
This TIS being an MFT , I could use it for regular installation and maintanance jobs as well as probing the harmonics on PV and LED arrays.
So half of the cost replaces number 2 meter which is a bit sad with its casing split open after jumping off the high steps.
I hope to meet the TIS rep soon and see if they will let me have a proper go on it.
But I have a nagging doubt, the blurb says
" Power quality analysis of single-phase or balanced 3 phase systems".
I'm thinking I might be more concerned about what is going on in unbalanced 3 phase systems.
Imagine what the the chief will say were I to say we really need one of these to be sure of complying with 313.1 or 551.5.2

Kewtech KEW6310
Fluke 435
Megger MPQ1000

My mate had a Bennelli 900, it was pretty good.

 

[Brian Sinclair]

TIS pretend to be manufacturers of test equipment but basically they are just clever salespeople living on the back of other peoples designs and cheap imports. I find it somewhat misleading that they dont admit this. The instrument you are talking about is made by HT instruments in Italy and can be found here GSC60 tester or all electrical safety tests and Power Quality analysis | HT Instruments - https://www.ht-instruments.com/en/products/power-quality-analyzers/touch-screen-display/gsc60/

They just have it badged in their name, the rest of their range are poor quality Chinese imports that can be bought from this company 华盛昌 - http://www.cem-instruments.com/en/

There are only two UK manufacturers Megger and Fluke, the rest are sub standard immitations

 

[Steve Hayes]

TIS pretend to be manufacturers of test equipment but basically they are just clever salespeople living on the back of other peoples designs and cheap imports. I find it somewhat misleading that they dont admit this. The instrument you are talking about is made by HT instruments in Italy and can be found here GSC60 tester or all electrical safety tests and Power Quality analysis | HT Instruments - https://www.ht-instruments.com/en/products/power-quality-analyzers/touch-screen-display/gsc60/

They just have it badged in their name, the rest of their range are poor quality Chinese imports that can be bought from this company 华盛昌 - http://www.cem-instruments.com/en/

There are only two UK manufacturers Megger and Fluke, the rest are sub standard immitations

Gentlemen just to answer a few questions on here

1st of all TIS gear isn’t from China and bought from CEM we wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole, that’s who the likes of Dialog use

Secondly the TIS MFT Pro is a HT Italia Product and we’ve never hidden from that fact why would we it’s the Number 1 selling MFT Tester in Europe and our sells any Megger and Fluke so we’re proud of this.

Thirdly anyone that’s up on the 18th Edition will know there’s a New Amendment coming that require measurement of Volt Drop and Power Harmonics, the MFT Pro is the ONLY MFT Tester that has this capability

 

[Steve Hayes]

My experience of Italian motorcycles and cars, is that the electrics are rubbish.
Would I buy an Italian MFT that’s more expensive than a Megger, Fluke or Metrel?
No!

Also to answer another question on Here the MFT Pro is Cheaper than its equivalents on Fluke and Megger so not sure where the pricing issue has come from

 

[Adam W]

Steve I met one of your reps recently who gave me an idea of the prices; TBH for the price I'd rather go for a better known brand.
I appreciate they have a touch screen and might do things which other brands don't do, and the software is upgradeable so they can potentially do anything, but in the vast majority of situations I just need something which is going to do the required tests so I can write them down on a form.

Same with some of your other products, for instance a voltage tester which tests capacitance (something a domestic or commercial electrician rarely tests) for a similar price to the Fluke equivalent, and a network tester which will check a BNC cable but not RJ11.

I like that your company is pioneering new ideas, but for me to buy into an unknown brand I'd need substantial price incentives.

 

[Brian Sinclair]

HT Italia will never be the top selling brand in Europe fact, Megger and Fluke have that market wrapped up. HT Italia testers have been around for years, they are slow inaccurate and unreliable. Electricians like Megger for its simplicity and reliability, many think Fluke is over complicated and hard to use , the HT Italia products are not user friendly for the type of everyday electrician who can’t be bothered to read a manual.

I still say TIS mislead the market with unsubstantiated claims about the quality of the products, they are great salesmen because they sell an inferior brand well but that is as far as it goes. Most of the other products are CEM or equivalent Chinese imports despite the posts above or maybe CEM copied the TIS1850 , I think not somehow

Multifunction Installation Tester with Bluetooth | CEF - https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/4182038-multifunction-installation-tester-with-bluetooth

DT-6650 - http://www.cem-instruments.com/en/Product/detail/id/912


Could you enlighten us with some more technical information as to how the meter calculates volt drop without the user needing to input cable type and length of the cable in the circuit under test or is the meter an expensive calculator

 

[Brian Sinclair]

None of the 18th edition changes are pertinent to test equipment it is just another sales slant like Di-Log advertising the 9083P as the only 17th edition tester when in fact there was no change in test meter requirements between 16th and 17th edition.
It is a slant so that any electrician who is easily fooled will panic and buy one,the market initially got flooded with those 9083P meters and basically they were a pile of poo, I do agree with Steve Heyes post above on that.Do you work for TIS or CEF by any chance

 

[Brian Sinclair]

Sorry I just noticed in your profile you work at TIS , I admire your balls and enthusiasm for your product

 

[MJPD29]

Looks like it does everything while still looking fancy but very expensive id stick to fluke or megger instead for reliability

 

[Steve Hayes]

None of the 18th edition changes are pertinent to test equipment it is just another sales slant like Di-Log advertising the 9083P as the only 17th edition tester when in fact there was no change in test meter requirements between 16th and 17th edition.
It is a slant so that any electrician who is easily fooled will panic and buy one,the market initially got flooded with those 9083P meters and basically they were a pile of poo, I do agree with Steve Heyes post above on that.Do you work for TIS or CEF by any chance

Hi Brian, I own TIS So I know where all my testers are bought from, yes you are correct we made a mistake years ago when we launched the TIS 1850 and it was the only product we bought from CEM which is why we won’t buy anything else from them, HT Italia are the number one selling instrument in Europe both Megger and Fluke can’t crack the market, HT Italia have come a long way back in the day again you were right but things have changed, we’ve tested EVERY MFT on the market and apart from the MFT1741 all the rest are not accurate the new confidence loop test is good but we have that on the MFT Pro, so Repeatable Loop Tests are now very accurate, with ours you get the PSC, PFC, L-PE and L-N result on the push of one button you will then get all 6 RCD Test Results on a full new Auto mode, you will probably know the 18th Edition are now writing an amendment 1 check this out as it asks for measurement of Volt Drop and Power Harmonics which is why we’ve put it on the tester, if you would like information on this I can email you know problem, if you would also like any more info on my company I’d be happy to help.

 

[Brian Sinclair]

Steve, but you promoted the CEM meter as the best in the market too when launched and there are still many people out there who have paid good money and are struggling with them, if they are so bad you should have recalled and refunded every one bought.

I can only comment on past experience with HT Italia working with a wide range of their products over a 40 year period, I am semi retired now so am not as on the ball as I used to be but I have seen your tester at a show and looked at it online and while it may or may not be OK for industrial applications it is way over complicated for domestic electricians with functions that they do not require.

What are you expecting a domestic electrician to do with the harmonics function?

I still can't see how volt drop can be accurately measured without inputting the cable type and knowing the length of cable in the circuit. If you know this it is a simple calculation anyway there is no need for it to be measured.

 

[Steve Hayes]

Steve, but you promoted the CEM meter as the best in the market too when launched and there are still many people out there who have paid good money and are struggling with them, if they are so bad you should have recalled and refunded every one bought.

I can only comment on past experience with HT Italia working with a wide range of their products over a 40 year period, I am semi retired now so am not as on the ball as I used to be but I have seen your tester at a show and looked at it online and while it may or may not be OK for industrial applications it is way over complicated for domestic electricians with functions that they do not require.

What are you expecting a domestic electrician to do with the harmonics function?

I still can't see how volt drop can be accurately measured without inputting the cable type and knowing the length of cable in the circuit. If you know this it is a simple calculation anyway there is no need for it to be measured.

Every other Test Equipment company promote there products and say there the best why have Megger Launched a NEW Confidence Loop Test for stable repeatable Loop Tests What does that say about the MfT1711, Mft1721 and 1731 ???, you are right the MFT Pro isn’t for a domestic electrician which is why in the next 12 months or so we will have a MFT Eco to combat this market too.

 

[Brian Sinclair]

That is good to hear, it will probably sell well , but I am old fashioned in the sense that I like to buy products direct from the manufacturer. There are only two manufacturers in the UK and that is Megger and Fluke, the rest of you just really act as agents / salesmen for overseas companies and the designs and responsibilities as such are not your own.
Like you said with the last multifunction you immediately passed the blame onto CEM which is what most resellers would do on expensive items.

 

[Steve Hayes]

That is good to hear, it will probably sell well , but I am old fashioned in the sense that I like to buy products direct from the manufacturer. There are only two manufacturers in the UK and that is Megger and Fluke, the rest of you just really act as agents / salesmen for overseas companies and the designs and responsibilities as such are not your own.
Like you said with the last multifunction you immediately passed the blame onto CEM which is what most resellers would do on expensive items.

Brian, you need to do more research before comment that’s the only reason I picked up with what you’re saying I know where Megger and Fluke come from and neither manufacturer in the U.K., Flukes repairs are done in Holland and there Amprobe re badged Fluke Testers come from China, Fluke also have a massive factory in China, but thanks for your feedback but to say all our Meters come Fromm
China and are re badged are wrong, HT Italia are a partner and we do have say what goes in our testers we haven’t just changed the colour TIS is a family run business my Dads been in Test Equipment for over 40 Years, My business partner has been in it 25 years so we’ve a good technical background on Test Equipment

 

[Brian Sinclair]

You seem to be getting a bit defensive now Steve, I hope I didn't touch a raw nerve, not the intention just passing an opinion which may be right or wrong. Selling test equipment and having a technical background are two different things, I never met a rep yet from any of the manufacturers who I would call technical , mainly sales BS from a script. Do you realise what you are saying, have you looked at the size and turnover of Megger and Fluke compared to HT Italia. They could buy them eat them for dinner and spit them out from their loose change.
I also think you need to do a little more research yourself regarding Megger and Fluke because you are way off the mark, as a senior technical director and more recently purchasing director I have had the pleasure of visiting the Megger facility in Dover and the Fluke facility in Norwich and while work may be duplicated in other countries they definitely manufacture and repair in both Dover and Norwich I have seen that with my own eyes. Maybe you should pay a visit. They are worldwide companies and are responsible for the design and manufacture of their own products irrespective of the country of manufacture. There is a difference between manufacturing product in a country and buying products from a third party manufacturer.

I am glad to hear that you have technical expertise within the company though even if you are not technical, if so you can get an answer to my original questions.

1. How does the meter measure volt drop
2. Explain the harmonics function and which type of engineers would use this and in which applications
3.The blurb mentions single phase and balanced 3 phase systems. How would the meter cope in an unbalanced 3 phase system?

 

[Brian Sinclair]

You seem to be getting a bit defensive now Steve, I hope I didn't touch a raw nerve, not the intention just passing an opinion which may be right or wrong. Selling test equipment and having a technical background are two different things, I never met a rep yet from any of the manufacturers who I would call technical , mainly sales BS from a script. Do you realise what you are saying, have you looked at the size and turnover of Megger and Fluke compared to HT Italia. They could buy them eat them for dinner and spit them out from their loose change.
I also think you need to do a little more research yourself regarding Megger and Fluke because you are way off the mark, as a senior technical director and more recently purchasing director I have had the pleasure of visiting the Megger facility in Dover and the Fluke facility in Norwich and while work may be duplicated in other countries they definitely manufacture and repair in both Dover and Norwich I have seen that with my own eyes. Maybe you should pay a visit. They are worldwide companies and are responsible for the design and manufacture of their own products irrespective of the country of manufacture. There is a difference between manufacturing product in a country and buying products from a third party manufacturer.

I am glad to hear that you have technical expertise within the company though even if you are not technical, if so you can get an answer to my original questions.

1. How does the meter measure volt drop
2. Explain the harmonics function and which type of engineers would use this and in which applications
3.The blurb mentions single phase and balanced 3 phase systems. How would the meter cope in an unbalanced 3 phase system?

Still waiting for an exlanation , these people do not know their products and I believe they have retracted their claims of this being the “only 18th edition compliant tester” after a legal threat ans publication from a large manufacturer. Just shows how amateurish CEF are promoting these products . Professional wholesalers and technical buyers know better.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

My Metrel does Volt Drop.

 

[wildwest]

As it happens the TIS rep was at the City branch with his MFT Pro today. He couldn't demo the PQA functions in the store. But he s up for letting me have a proper go on it.
So, we'll see

 

[wildwest]

I've had a little go with this tester now and I've decided it's going back to the shop.
Heres the thing.
It measures continuity between terminal B1 and terminal B4, but
insulation resistance is measured between B1 and B3. Can you see what I'm getting at.
When I'm doing dead testing I don't want to be fiddling with the test leads. Suppose me or my monkey forgets to swap the lead over after testing R1 + R2 . The instrument doesn't warn me, I get really good test results for Riso.
To my mind this is a fundemental error of design.
There are many other features this tester has, power factor and harmonic distortion analysis and all kinds of RCD and VOCB testing, but it is a reduced function version of the HT GSC60 and that suffers the same flaw.
I have to say I 'm quite dissappointed, I got really excited about trying out this tester, it didn't even have that new gizmo smell. Oh well.

 

[Brian Sinclair]

It is a reduced version of the HTGSC60, just rebadged as TIS, HT have always struggled with this concept of not having the same terminals for loop and continuity and all of their testers are painfully slow.

It just wont sell prices against a Megger or a Fluke as a basic installation tester, the fancy bits like Power don’t come as standard you need to buy HT current clamps etc which cost half as much as the original tester. It is like advertising a car with sat nav but sat nav isnt enabled.

Overall it is an overpriced tester that does the basics reasonably OK but is fiddly to use, very slow and not robust.

My guess is these guys have done a great sales job convincing stockists to fill their shelves with these but I think the majority will still be on those shelves gathering dust in years to come.

 

[Chrissssss]

The display on the Mft pro is not very durable mine is broken already