rcd tripping after smoke alarm fitted.

[DC-backfrom the past]

I am trying to help here!

So there was originally 1 smoke alarm, fed by T&E from the fuseboard.

You've added another smoke and a heat alarm to the existing smoke.

Now either 1 or the other RCD will trip.....

You've used 3 core cable for the new smoke & heat?

Or have I missed something?

apologies Murdoch if I seemed ungrateful I didn't intend to come across that way.
correct the supply is t&E from board then three core thereon
the third core is used for the interlink facility. if one alarm sounds they all sound together
I have drawn a very rough diagram I have left out the earth for clarity.

 

[Octopus]

No offence taken!

Are you 100% sure you have the neutrals in the correct places in the smoke alarm bases

L
IC
N

 

[DC-backfrom the past]

No offence taken!

Are you 100% sure you have the neutrals in the correct places in the smoke alarm bases

L
IC
N

yes mate I'm sure ...I checked three times or possibly four .That's why I took it back to the original circuit (T&E) to try and ascertain if it was a faulty unit to blame.
I checked with two base units and two detectors.
I couldn't understand why the other rcd tripped on two occasions though.
there was a lot of junk in the loft and I had to move some of it
I can only presume that somewhere I have maybe damaged another circuit ...but cant think if that's the case why it only trips when this circuit is made live and connected to the alarm..

 

[Octopus]

What is the "new" cable run like? all clipped?

Still think you need to dis the new part and IR the new bit - and you must IR between ALL cores to make 100% sure.

 

[DC-backfrom the past]

What is the "new" cable run like? all clipped?

Still think you need to dis the new part and IR the new bit - and you must IR between ALL cores to make 100% sure.

Its all clipped in the loft area...
I appreciate what your saying. but I've disconnected the new part completely and the original cable, which was ok, is now the only part connected and its tripping the rcd !!!!

I disconnected it and IR tested that T&E as well

hence my headache !!!!

 

[Octopus]

Next step, which seems a bit odd, but I think you should run the smoke from a new piece of t&e direct from the board at cu level. Do this to test the bases and heads you have.

You need to do this to rule them out of the problem ....

 

[Toneyz]

Sorry if I've missed something here but what is that other cable in the MCB? if the other RCD is tripping sounds like the crossed neutral. Just a thought but have you checked the two neutral bars are doing the corresponding MCB bank.

 

[westward10]

He has yet to clarify how it is connected and which parts are new and what is existing.

 

[DC-backfrom the past]

Thanks I've resigned myself to replacing the initial cable.
Or hoping the rcd fixing fairy has visited during the night
Thanks to all for your help
Fresh eyes and clear head may help

 

[DC-backfrom the past]

Sorry if I've missed something here but what is that other cable in the MCB? if the other RCD is tripping sounds like the crossed neutral. Just a thought but have you checked the two neutral bars are doing the corresponding MCB bank.

The other cable is lighting circuit for hall.
However I have tried the smoke alarm cicuit in the adjacent mcb on it's own.
As stated by you and others I will double check the neutral bar in case there is a crossover or borrowed neutral.
Thanks

 

[DC-backfrom the past]

He has yet to clarify how it is connected and which parts are new and what is existing.

Sorry I thought it was clarified
T&E was existing cable to 1st smoke
New circuit from there is 3 core
L
N
IC
This allows interlinking .
After the fault occurred and rechecking via visual and ir test .I disconnected the new circuit and reverted back to original, T&E and first alarm
The rcd stills trips

 

[Octopus]

However I have tried the smoke alarm cicuit in the adjacent mcb on it's own.
Thanks

That's not what I meant, just run a meter of new cable from the CU and test the smokes and bases....

 

[Ian1981]

Have you solely just powered the smoke detectors and nothing else on that rcd or even the house and if so does it still trip?

 

[Midwest]

So to recap, everything was functioning correctly before addition.

Property had one smoke alarm fed via one LOSH (?) cable from CU.

Additional 3c & e cable installed. Tested. Put on smoke heads which trips 'either' RCD.

Addition disconnected, now original circuit with smoke head on, trips RCD when energised.

The only thing that has changed, is OP working in loft space.

My bit of input, I wonder what global IR test would reveal if anything?

 

[ruston]

I have to confess I have not digested the thread properly , but have you tried the circuit intact but with the alarms removed?

 

[Octopus]

That's a nice new shiny board. Do you have access to the EIC?

 

[Midwest]

I have to confess I have not digested the thread properly , but have you tried the circuit intact but with the alarms removed?

Don't think he has, but he's tried using new base & head; still trips. As the alarms are class 2, does seem peculiar?

Wonder what would happen, if he connected a different load. Hardly scientific, just curious?

 

[ruston]

@Midwest . Yes , I was wondering , never had a faulty one ; but one of the units may be duff , or as has been alluded to -damaged.
Obvously looks like a borrowed neutral or earth fault in the feed , or the feed is supplying something else too if it is not dedicated.
First suspicion always goes to two way switching on up landing and down hall , but I think that is ruled out here .
Not a sneaky loft light is it?

 

[Midwest]

@Midwest . Yes , I was wondering , never had a faulty one ; but one of the units may be duff , or as has been alluded to -damaged.
Obvously looks like a borrowed neutral or earth fault in the feed , or the feed is supplying something else too if it is not dedicated.
First suspicion always goes to two way switching on up landing and down hall , but I think that is ruled out here .
Not a sneaky loft light is it?

Possiblier, think I would also do that global IR.

 

[DC-backfrom the past]

ok so I went back today with fresh eyes and clear head.
I checked the circuit again all good, visually and ir test.
amongst other things,I decided to give the board a good look over
it had only been fitted last year.
long story short ... I found a fault the bus bar where it should connect the live side of rcd to mcb it wasn't connected properly. In the MCB it was touching the outside of the screw clamp
ie the cable entry clamp was closed and it wasn't securely holding the bus bar .
Thus the only thing that was securely holding the bus bar in place were the screws/cable clamp of the rcd. As I was switching on the mcb switching up the way there was slight movement of the mcb .
I checked the other side and it was the same
it was as though whoever fitted the board had connected the bus bar outside on the rcd and thereafter placed the mcb

I sorted this and then tried again and success all working properly
what I did notice as well was when the cover was on its a tight fight due to the metal so there is no movement/play at all when switching on or off any mcb or rcd . sometimes the plastic boxes had a bit of play due to being flimsy.
When the other side was tripping I think I had been switching on and off via main switch, so may explain the other rcd tripping with the slight movement.
I cant find anything else that's wrong anymore and its working now
thanks to all that helped and replied last night.
I was particularly thankful for the support here, as other forums I've seen people ridiculed asking for help.

 

[Midwest]

Cool. This electrickery stuff does throw some curved balls sometimes. Thanks for putting us out of misery, and replying back. Have an extra cup of tea, or a wee dram tonight!

Edit; another 'check' item to put in the RCD keeps tripping box for forum FAQ's

 

[Octopus]

Good man .... Nice to get some feedback, and yes sometimes walking away and going back with a fresh mind does help fault finding

 

[DC-backfrom the past]

[

Cool. This electrickery stuff does throw some curved balls sometimes. Thanks for putting us out of misery, and replying back. Have an extra cup of tea, or a wee dram tonight!

Edit; another 'check' item to put in the RCD keeps tripping box for forum FAQ's

did you mean I should place the info there ?

I must admit to having a beer on a tonight to celebrate ...school night as well lol

 

[Midwest]

[

did you mean I should place the info there ?

I must admit to having a beer on a tonight to celebrate ...school night as well lol

Don't think we have such a place, we should do. Guess you'll (and me) will just have to store that in the memory banks for the future. Now where's my keys?