Ring circuit question

[Neil73]

Hi, first post.

I was hoping for some advice. I have just brought a property and the electrical side needs updating. I have one ring main for the whole property, so why I am doing up the kitchen I have decided to put a separate ring main in for the kitchen, my issue is what should I do with the existing sockets in the room? should I put a blank faceplate on them? I am not sure how I can separate them from the existing ring main circuit, and utilise them in the new kitchen circuit without causing issues to the existing ring circuit.

Appreciate any advice

 

[Pete999]

Might want to get an Electrician to help you out Mate

 

[Midwest]

Hi Neil, welcome to the forum. I'm not sure of your electrical expertise or competence.

It would be a good idea to create a new & additional circuit for a kitchen & appliances. The existing RFC in the kitchen would require alteration & disconnection etc, in the floor void or by alteration of sockets in the floor above. A new final circuit could then be added for the kitchen.

This would be a relatively simple task for a competent electrician, but would cause a bit of disruption, of removing floors, or removal of some or all of the kitchen ceiling.

By definition, the new kitchen circuit would require notification to your local building control.

 

[SparkyChick]

Ideally, you would identify the full cable route, which ideally would be that the kitchen section is separate (i.e. there is one cable into it and one cable out of it, with no other sockets, say first floor, being supplied by it). If that situation exists, it's easy enough to split the existing ring and run new legs to supply the kitchen only, if not then I'd look at rewiring it as you don't want to have lots of additional connections as each one is a possible point of failure in the future.

You're not clear on what qualifications you have, but as has been suggested, you may be best to engage the services of someone with a little more experience.

 

[Strima]

Sounds like your sockets are fed from an upstairs ring, easiest option is to completely rip the ceiling out and start from fresh in the kitchen. The existing RFC can be rerouted at the same time.

 

[Taylortwocities]

And the term is RING FINAL circuit, not RING MAIN.

 

[Neil73]

Hi, Thanks for all your reply's so far. Just so you are aware I am City and Guilds trained, however I have never been a practicing electrician as I went in a different direction. I would never attempted anything I was confident I knew I was doing.
Thanks

 

[Octopus]

Please be aware what you are thinking of falls under part P of the building regs ..

 

[Pete999]

And the term is RING FINAL circuit, not RING MAIN.

No offence TTC for the old tag, but I always get an Old tag when I post the same as you so I thought why should you get away without one as well

 

[Taylortwocities]

I’ll bet we aren’t as ‘old’ as his C&G training. His post indicates he doesn’t remember so well.

 

[Pete999]

I’ll bet we aren’t as ‘old’ as his C&G training. His post indicates he doesn’t remember so well.

Question is "what is the C&G" qualification?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Just so you are aware I am City and Guilds trained,

 

[MJPD29]

Could be city and guilds arts and crafts for all we know. Be careful as if your not a practicing electrician you could land yourself in danger

 

[Midwest]

Lets not scare off another new member, he's only asking a question.

 

[Octopus]

Lets not scare off another new member, he's only asking a question.

True - he may be back soon to update us on his thoughts re the "relevant" comments about what he would like to do...

 

[7029 dave]

Hi, first post.

I was hoping for some advice. I have just brought a property and the electrical side needs updating. I have one ring main for the whole property, so why I am doing up the kitchen I have decided to put a separate ring main in for the kitchen, my issue is what should I do with the existing sockets in the room? should I put a blank faceplate on them? I am not sure how I can separate them from the existing ring main circuit, and utilise them in the new kitchen circuit without causing issues to the existing ring circuit.

Appreciate any advice

Hi, IMO, leave the existing circuit as is, and just create new circuit for the new.

 

[7029 dave]

Hi, first post.

I was hoping for some advice. I have just brought a property and the electrical side needs updating. I have one ring main for the whole property, so why I am doing up the kitchen I have decided to put a separate ring main in for the kitchen, my issue is what should I do with the existing sockets in the room? should I put a blank faceplate on them? I am not sure how I can separate them from the existing ring main circuit, and utilise them in the new kitchen circuit without causing issues to the existing ring circuit.

Appreciate any advice

delete

 

[Neil73]

Hi, IMO, leave the existing circuit as is, and just create new circuit for the new.

Hi Dave, another electrician has said to me to leave the existing sockets as they're and then add another ring circuit for the new sockets i need in the kitchen, and then add a note at the consumer unit. However i was not sure if this would be a good idea, as there would be a mixture of sockets from different ring circuits in the same room?

 

[westward10]

Doesn't matter.

 

[Octopus]

Its all very well adding a note on a CU .............. but with how much detail?

So many CU's are not labelled or very poorly labelled.

Safe isolation is the key

And its not unusual in a kitchen to have 4 or more circuits.............

 

[Neil73]

Its all very well adding a note on a CU .............. but with how much detail?

So many CU's are not labelled or very poorly labelled.

Safe isolation is the key

And its not unusual in a kitchen to have 4 or more circuits.............

Sorry Murdoch i am not understanding your reply!!

Are you saying it would be ok too have too different ring circuits supplying the room, as long as the consumer unit is clearly marked?

I appreciate there would be a separate circuit for the cooker and lighting etc.

I would supply a circuit diagram of all the sockets in room color coded to which ring circuit they belong too.

 

[Taylortwocities]

He is sayin there is no problem having more than one circuit serving the sockets in the kitchen.
There is an issue of safe isolation where a circuit is denoted as “kitchen sockets” when there are multiple circuits serving the area.
You have to ask yourself what the purpose is for having a separate circuit for the kitchen. If it is to provide load relief because there are high currents bring anticipated then a new circuit may be needed (I would pull out the old ones and have all the kitchen sockets on one circuit).
Otherwise, just extend the existing circuit.

@Neil73 please please: there are several ways of typing some words. You seem to use “too” for everything, and it makes difficult reading!
If you aren’t sure the difference between too, to and two, could you help by using the figure “2” when you mean a quantity in between one and three?
Thank you.

 

[Octopus]

I would supply a circuit diagram of all the sockets in room color coded to which ring circuit they belong too.

Are you doing this for a paying customer?

 

[Midwest]

@Neil73 please please: there are several ways of typing some words. You seem to use “too” for everything, and it makes difficult reading!
If you aren’t sure the difference between too, to and two, could you help by using the figure “2” when you mean a quantity in between one and three?
Thank you.

You're being a bit picky; you wanna pull buzzlighyear, don't understand half of wot he says.

 

[Midwest]

Sorry Murdoch i am not understanding your reply!!

Are you saying it would be ok too have too different ring circuits supplying the room, as long as the consumer unit is clearly marked?

I appreciate there would be a separate circuit for the cooker and lighting etc.

I would supply a circuit diagram of all the sockets in room color coded to which ring circuit they belong too.

As others have said, no probs with more than one socket circuit in your kitchen.

However, its your house, have it how you want it. And if you moving or re-locating sockets etc, I would do as you're suggesting, and isolate existing RFC from kitchen, and add new kitchen circuit for sockets.

I would suspect a ordinary person would not expect to find sockets on different circuits in one room, and not having been trained in safe isolation, its not unlikely to cause them problems.

 

[Pete999]

You're being a bit picky; you wanna pull buzzlighyear, don't understand half of wot he says.

Agree Buzz can be a bit undecipherable at times, but we still love him.

 

[Midwest]

Aww shucks Pete

 

[Taylortwocities]

You're being a bit picky; you wanna pull buzzlighyear, don't understand half of wot he says.

My Dad was a technical author, I guess some of it rubbed off on me. Stuff like that hits me in the eye.
And don’t get me started on misuse of the apostrophe

 

[telectrix]

''''''''''''''' .

potatoe's. ha'ha.

 

[Taylortwocities]

 

[Neil73]

He is sayin there is no problem having more than one circuit serving the sockets in the kitchen.
There is an issue of safe isolation where a circuit is denoted as “kitchen sockets” when there are multiple circuits serving the area.
You have to ask yourself what the purpose is for having a separate circuit for the kitchen. If it is to provide load relief because there are high currents bring anticipated then a new circuit may be needed (I would pull out the old ones and have all the kitchen sockets on one circuit).
Otherwise, just extend the existing circuit.

@Neil73 please please: there are several ways of typing some words. You seem to use “too” for everything, and it makes difficult reading!
If you aren’t sure the difference between too, to and two, could you help by using the figure “2” when you mean a quantity in between one and three?
Thank you.

Thanks for the correction Taylor, let's just say that being as the reply was at 23:10 last night it was a typo, rather than not knowing the difference between "to, too and two"

Thanks for all the replies, most have been useful and informative.
As the work is on my house and not a paying customer, I have decided to see if I can remove those existing sockets in the Kitchen if I can and put a single ring circuit in there. However I have a small budget so I am not prepared to rip down the ceiling or anything that extreme. Worst case scenario is that I will have mixture of sockets in the room from the two different ring circuits, and I will produce a laminate drawing detailing the arrangement and leave it next to the consumer unit for future reference.

Oh and lastly any work I carryout will be tested and signed off by a Part P registered electrician, or building inspector.

thanks

 

[Wilko]

My Dad was a technical author, I guess some of it rubbed off on me. Stuff like that hits me in the eye.
And don’t get me started on misuse of the apostrophe

My dearest Wifey used to be an English teacher. Two times too much pain.

 

[Taylortwocities]

And the same to you two too!

 

[telectrix]

too much, to-ing here.

 

[Pete999]

too much, to-ing here.

To right

 

[Pete999]

To right

I'm off 2 get my dinner, what are we having two night love?

 

[Pete999]

I'm off 2 get my dinner, what are we having two night love?

Too much toing? OK I'll stop now might see you 2moz

 

[telectrix]

I'm off 2 get my dinner, what are we having two night love?

beanz on twoast and a bottle or too of red.

 

[Pete999]

beanz on twoast and a bottle or too of red.

One not too Mate one is enough two is far to much for one person too would be OK, but two much for one.

 

[Octopus]

Oh and lastly any work I carryout will be tested and signed off by a Part P registered electrician, or building inspector.

thanks

Hum ............. best you speak to these people before you start ...........