Ring Main with sockets not working

[alpelec]

Hi, I recently went to look at a house with about 10 sockets not working. Checked the continuity on the ring main ends - all good. I turned off all other socket circuits in the board just to make sure no crossed circuits - still the same, about 5 sockets working and the rest (about 10) not working.
No live/earth continuity at the non-working sockets either. Tested the ends in a non-working socket with all the ends connected at the board. Neutrals reading ok but open circuit on the lives & earths. I'm usually pretty good at fault-finding but this one has got me baffled.

Any ideas much appreciated.

 

[telectrix]

i'm in cheshire. you want me to assist? fault finding is so much easier with 2 heads and 4 hands.

 

[buzzlightyear]

fuse spur any where .

 

[westward10]

If you have continuity at the board, end to ends but not at the sockets which do not function apart from the neutrals you may have a figure of eight situation which has broken down.

 

[telectrix]

it's a head scratcher without being on site.

 

[alpelec]

fuse spur any where .

I did think about a fused spur some where but 10 sockets on a FCU? and the earths are open at the sockets not just the lives. I checked inside every socket and looked for any switches/spurs but nothing.

 

[buzzlightyear]

did you take the tails out of the sockets and split the circuit .

 

[telectrix]

I did think about a fused spur some where but 10 sockets on a FCU? and the earths are open at the sockets not just the lives. I checked inside every socket and looked for any switches/spurs but nothing.

2 hours. i'll find it.

 

[alpelec]

did you take the tails out of the sockets and split the circuit .

Yes I tried that but don't understand why the ends of the non-working sockets are open excluding the neutrals.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I would start from one end to mid point and go from there.

 

[telectrix]

start from basics. continuity with wander lead.

 

[alpelec]

If you have continuity at the board, end to ends but not at the sockets which do not function apart from the neutrals you may have a figure of eight situation which has broken down.

The ring within a ring is what I was thinking. Work has been done in the past. New conservatory and kitchen. Some of the kitchen is in new wiring colours but no obvious Jb's or joins in sockets. T&G chipboard flooring above with fitted carpets and plenty of furniture too. Flooring would have had to be cut though above somewhere so may be obvious if some of the rooms were emptied.

 

[buzzlightyear]

fitted carpets and plenty of furniture too. Flooring would have had to be cut though above somewhere so may be obvious if some of the rooms were emptied.

you could ring up pickfords to move the furniture and the carpet.lol.

 

[GBDamo]

Theres got to be shenanigans if you're getting end to end continuity.

Ring off ring or the 10 US sockets are a none fused radial off the ring. Although you'd have seen a single cable socket if radial.

Ring off ring would have had to have a double point failure to see what you're seeing though, itself unlikely but not impossible.

Got to he JB(s) somewhere

Best of luck..

 

[westward10]

Double point failure yes but one failure may have always been there, the cpcs but it is the line failure which has highlighted the issue.

 

[buzzlightyear]

To work out the detail circuit i would draw on a piece of paper to which way its going .when under pressure to complete the job .

 

[GBDamo]

Double point failure yes but one failure may have always been there, the cpcs but it is the line failure which has highlighted the issue.

I was thinking more, if its a ring off a ring, then each leg would have to fail to see what he's seeing even if one cpc and a live had failed then there'd still be the other leg to provide power.

You're right though, the other end may never have been connected, worrying.

 

[littlespark]

I might have misunderstood.
Do you have end to end continuity at the board? L-L, E-E and N-N?
Do you have continuity as if you were doing a R1 + R2? ie, L-E at the board with L-E shorted at each socket in turn (and L-N, N-E)

Suggest you take @telectrix offer of help. 2 heads better than one, and i'm sure he'll charge at a flat rate of 4 beers per hour

 

[snowhead]

Suggest you take @telectrix offer of help. 2 heads better than one, and i'm sure he'll charge at a flat rate of 4 beers per hour

He's doubled his hourly rate then??
Taking advantage of Brexit chaos (allegedly) already.

 

[littlespark]

He's doubled his hourly rate then??
Taking advantage of Brexit chaos (allegedly) already.

View attachment 51834

Yes. Its double beers on a sunday

 

[telectrix]

Yes. Its double beers on a sunday

double beers my arse. double single malt.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

How do you know that the dodgy sockets are definitely on the same circuit at the working 5?

 

[buzzlightyear]

single malt bottle .

Glenfidage bottle one .

 

[gazdkw82]

Take every socket off and work methodically around. Disconnect all conductors and continuity check using a wonder lead. Sketch the layout on some paper as you go.

It's surprising how it makes more sense looking at it from that perspective.

My suspicious would be a ring within a ring via a JB.

 

[TheReturnOfHightower]

you didn’t miss the first question of fault finding in your haste?

1) what did you do when It stopped working?

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Id just take teletrix up on his offer, find it quicker and learn the besr way of finding this kind of fault for the future. No shame is gettting experiance in to learn from and help

 

[davesparks]

Take every socket off and work methodically around. Disconnect all conductors and continuity check using a wonder lead. Sketch the layout on some paper as you go.

It's surprising how it makes more sense looking at it from that perspective.

My suspicious would be a ring within a ring via a JB.

Methodical working is the key yes, but there's rarely a need to take all of the sockets off.
Take a guess at where the middle of the circuit is and split it there, then fidn which half is faulty. Carry on splitting the faulty section in half until you find it.

 

[telectrix]

what he says^^^^^.

 

[driverman]

What made the customer call you in the first place? Had they been doing any work of some sort?
Any building work or similar within the house? Or did the sockets just pack up working for no particular reason?

 

[Gary latto]

Be interesting to find outcome when sorted

 

[DPG]

Be interesting to find outcome when sorted

I don't think we will.