and this site Google Translate - https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=&sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fschema-electrique.net%2Fschema-electrique-de-prise-de-courant-norme-et-cablage-du-circuit.html
two feeds into one MCB
Star Radial from one JB
[automerge]1593257112[/automerge]
check this out!!!!
the octopus thats brilliant
[automerge]1593257969[/automerge]
test
;
two feeds into one MCB
Star Radial from one JB
[automerge]1593257112[/automerge]
check this out!!!!
the octopus thats brilliant
Préparation et réalisation d'une pieuvre électrique en autoconstruction
Comment calculer, préparer et réaliser vos pieuvres électriques en fonction de vos plans éclairages et à l'aide d'un fichier Exel
entraide.asteolelec.fr
test
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I was supervising Sov Sparkies during the rewire of leased property to be used as leetings for Embassy staff including me and mine, we use UK kit but had to concede to the Sov way of doing things, so 2.5 from DB to sockets on a 20A Radial, did try to tutor them on the UK way, but banging my head on a brick wall springs to mind, they hadnever seen or used an RCD before I introduced them on the install.Thanks
from this french web site suggests more one connection into MCB - by twistingbut recommends wago
Plusieurs cables à raccoder sur un disjoncteur
Bonjour à tous, Je vais commencer l'électricité de ma maison. J'ai une relative connaissance théorique dans ce domaine, nettement moins dans la...translate.google.co.uk
I will look at some russian stuff later
Thank you for your info - personally I don't object to some of the european ways, I'm sure they think the Ring is a bit strange - but I think in Russia they use those twist connectors like in America and I don't like them, but there are some good Russian/German web pages on electrical drawings.
None of my Guys used fire nuts I provided strip connectors (before Wagos) and Wagos when they were introduced, used a lot of Wagos, reckon they were pocketing some here and there for PJs they were not paid much by the way, had to limit the supply bit like a drug dealer lol, then the Sovs opened a B and Q, that was interesting to say the least.
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Psssst £ 20 a packet plus my outlay, no middle man.Yes Wago addiction is one of the biggest problems of our time
[automerge]1593269891[/automerge]
As an aside, still got my Sov test lamp, a classic bit of kit, no pics cus it's in me ex Sov box in the Garage, what's the make of those voltage testers? Stienel I think, I ordered about 30 of the cheapest one for my Lads, baskets were flogging them, still B and Q solved that issue, we were allowed 20Amps per dwelling, had an electric fire for emergencies, plugged I, took the main fuse out (don't ask about discrimination) it don't exist in a Communist state) had to call Mr fixit cus I wasn't allowed to touch the mains for fear of the Gulag, cost me my Steinel tester, still never mind eh? My Mrs was chewing he finger nails in anticipation of a visit from the Keith George Brown thugs. lolYes Wago addiction is one of the biggest problems of our time
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I was talking ref our regs BS7671 only. other countries will differ but Europeans will have many similarities with ours although still some different quirks.
Trees are, in actuallity, the same whether they are all in the fuseway or in joint boxes (including ceiling roses, they are just a more pretty variant of a joint box really) .
Some of our lot get a bit hung up thinking that whilst a tree might be OK if the first split is from a joint box yet not at the fuseway, which is not logical if you think about it but it`s the wat they`ve been brought up.
Yet others seem to think a radial must to 1,2,3,4,5 ..... to N (N being the total number) in a straight chain.
Whilst more elegant and also easier to test, it is not mandated, just in the same way that a 1 ring ring final is not mandated.
Lassoos again likewise.
Just because something is not listed in the OSG (standard circuits) or the informative appendices of BS7671 does not mean that they do not conform to the regs.
Trees are, in actuallity, the same whether they are all in the fuseway or in joint boxes (including ceiling roses, they are just a more pretty variant of a joint box really) .
Some of our lot get a bit hung up thinking that whilst a tree might be OK if the first split is from a joint box yet not at the fuseway, which is not logical if you think about it but it`s the wat they`ve been brought up.
Yet others seem to think a radial must to 1,2,3,4,5 ..... to N (N being the total number) in a straight chain.
Whilst more elegant and also easier to test, it is not mandated, just in the same way that a 1 ring ring final is not mandated.
Lassoos again likewise.
Just because something is not listed in the OSG (standard circuits) or the informative appendices of BS7671 does not mean that they do not conform to the regs.
I have have a old(60s) Readers Diggest that shows you how to make your own continuity tester with this and your test lamp could really be something beautiful.
Does a lamp holder, a Sov Lamp and some wire help you. No you can't have it before you ask means so much to me, and I'm a tool tart as well.
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It is to me as much as my Sov tools
BS 7671 is nearly word for word from IEC it appears and your probably find more complex detail about Radials on Euro sites from what i've found today anything over Two cable in the MCB is not really designed to hold more that this.
Thanks
from this french web site suggests more one connection into MCB - by twisting
Plusieurs cables à raccoder sur un disjoncteur
Bonjour à tous, Je vais commencer l'électricité de ma maison. J'ai une relative connaissance théorique dans ce domaine, nettement moins dans la...
I will look at some russian stuff later
That is against the French regulations no matter what the site or the people on it say.
The other link also shows 2 into one mcb - I don't have any idea if it complies or not but after searching a number of french sites(not easy for me I barley speak english) I goth the impression that 2 maximum, some forums saying MCB not designed for more than 2 cables - again I'm not saying it complies in anyway.
( I assume there French and not Belgium etc Don't know if there is much difference in there regs?)
In America a MCB must have rating for Double Tapping but seems to be totally different connection.
[automerge]1593274801[/automerge]
ill have a look in L'installation electrique at some point.
( I assume there French and not Belgium etc Don't know if there is much difference in there regs?)
In America a MCB must have rating for Double Tapping but seems to be totally different connection.
[automerge]1593274801[/automerge]
ill have a look in L'installation electrique at some point.
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I've never seen the regs but a famous French electrician did a book based on the regs for DIY'ers and in his 2011 copy he shows several pics with 3 separate lighting runs into one MCB, so i'm presuming you were definitely allowed to do it at some point.
Having said that, i've seen older French electrics and it doesn't appear there were any regs at all that were being followed if the work was anything to go by.
can you try and find the name?
L'installation electrique is the most popular I would say great books.
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there is this book in English by a English guy, never read it.
L'installation electrique is the most popular I would say great books.
[automerge]1593288355[/automerge]
there is this book in English by a English guy, never read it.
Electricity in your French house
If you own a house in France or if you are thinking of buying one, an understanding of the French domestic electrical rules and regulations is invaluable. Whether you wish to reassure yourself that the electrical system has been installed correctly, extend an existing system, or if you are...
books.google.co.uk
"Electricity in your French House" is so out of date and wrong in a number of places, and not just the text.
L'installation èlectrique is by Gallauziaux and Fedullo published by Eyrolles updated 2017:
View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Linstallation-%C3%A9lectrique-Thierry-Gallauziaux/dp/2212674945/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=l%27installation+electrique&qid=1593295588&sr=8-1
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No the issue is not having multiple circuits protected by one MCB, the problem in France is that anyone can do their own thing in their property, there is no legislation to stop them, it's only if the property is let short or long term that any type of check is carried out, this also applies on re-sale, but as with all of these things it's a tick box exercise carried out by non electricians, the only time a domestic building is checked is if it requires a new installation, then the Consul will check, this may only consist of one socket and one lighting circuit, but if they conform to the Regulations then the power will be connected.
L'installation èlectrique is by Gallauziaux and Fedullo published by Eyrolles updated 2017:
View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Linstallation-%C3%A9lectrique-Thierry-Gallauziaux/dp/2212674945/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=l%27installation+electrique&qid=1593295588&sr=8-1
[automerge]1593295431[/automerge]
No the issue is not having multiple circuits protected by one MCB, the problem in France is that anyone can do their own thing in their property, there is no legislation to stop them, it's only if the property is let short or long term that any type of check is carried out, this also applies on re-sale, but as with all of these things it's a tick box exercise carried out by non electricians, the only time a domestic building is checked is if it requires a new installation, then the Consul will check, this may only consist of one socket and one lighting circuit, but if they conform to the Regulations then the power will be connected.
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After further investigation I am now going to have to contradict myself, 
it seem you can have two circuits into one MCB, but only under special conditions, they being two circuits of two remote switched sockets in the same room and marked up as such, presumably for table lamps? It also says "This convention is not applicable with reciprocating circuits" make of that what you will?
it seem you can have two circuits into one MCB, but only under special conditions, they being two circuits of two remote switched sockets in the same room and marked up as such, presumably for table lamps? It also says "This convention is not applicable with reciprocating circuits" make of that what you will?
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I've just sold my French house and you're right - the only check done was the diagnostique guy sticking some machine into the sockets and that was it.the problem in France is that anyone can do their own thing in their property, there is no legislation to stop them, it's only if the property is let short or long term that any type of check is carried out, this also applies on re-sale, but as with all of these things it's a tick box exercise carried out by non electricians, the only time a domestic building is checked is if it requires a new installation, then the Consul will check, this may only consist of one socket and one lighting circuit, but if they conform to the Regulations then the power will be connected.
It's funny though - with all our legislation and rules and schemes etc European countries still insist we're 'unregulated' compared to them and their standards. Bit batty if you ask me.
They look down their respective nose's at the UK because of the use of Ring Mains and only just insisting on two RCD's in our DB's. Try telling a French Electrician that it's now called a Final Ring Circuit and see how profound the shrug of the shoulders would be. 
I think the French are trying to tighten up on the Diagnostique, I have read somewhere they have to push the test button on the RCD's.
What they most seem to be interested in now is Equipotential Bonding to the service's and bathrooms, but at least it's become a three page Diagnostique tick list.
I think the French are trying to tighten up on the Diagnostique, I have read somewhere they have to push the test button on the RCD's.
What they most seem to be interested in now is Equipotential Bonding to the service's and bathrooms, but at least it's become a three page Diagnostique tick list.
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I sent a message to hager asking how many cables can be terminated into a MCB and here is detailed reply LOL!
Good Afternoon
You can only fit one cable into a MCB
Technical Support
Hager Ltd
So no more Rings
Good Afternoon
You can only fit one cable into a MCB
Technical Support
Hager Ltd
So no more Rings
I sent a message to hager asking how many cables can be terminated into a MCB and here is detailed reply LOL!
Good Afternoon
You can only fit one cable into a MCB
Technical Support
Hager Ltd
So no more Rings
Can't believe their tech support dept said that. I would be taking that a bit further.
What's a "mini ring"?Yeah why not a mini ring
You are correct. It would, nt be dangerous as the mcb will simply trip when overloaded. However, would it be good practice? No. Would it likely cause inconvenience for the homeowner? Almost certainly at some point
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Here's to "Ring circuits" one of the dinaosaurs of the electrical industry. Don't wish to offend anyone but having operated in one of possibly only 2 countries that actually use this wiring method I would hope that threads like this speed up its demise and finally put it out of its misery. It never deserved centre stage and was never going to be able to upstage its bigger brother on the world stage.. the Radial circuit. That said I have used it occasionally. It can in certain circumstances be a "get out of jail card".
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Ohh Edmond you are going to get some flack for that comment, although I agree.
You got my back Mike! Bring it on!
You can save some effort by just going through this thread:
www.electriciansforums.net
Why does the UK use rings for sockets? - in - Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations
, Why does the UK use rings for sockets?, Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations, ElectriciansForums.net Est.2006 | Free Electrical Advice Forum and page_number.
www.electriciansforums.net
That is a good thread actually. I appreciate the arguments for and against. I should say that I like you served my time in an environment where rings circuits were common. But they have fallen out of favour for the simple reason we find radials more advantageous. Now to those who have a preference for the ring circuit, all the best to them. Our regs still allow ring circuits but there are increasing restrictions on their use. I have not seen a ring circuit installed on a new build in the last 30 years. Its unspoken, but overhere there is a feeling that the clock is ticking on them.However as I mentioned they have a role to be play. On an occasion recently (installation with poor electrical design) we combined 2 radials to make a ring and it solved a major headache. But it's in that role I have always seen the ring, as a support, rathar than the main actYou can save some effort by just going through this thread:
Why does the UK use rings for sockets? - in - Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations
, Why does the UK use rings for sockets?, Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations, ElectriciansForums.net Est.2006 | Free Electrical Advice Forum and page_number.
Advantageous in what way?
Is this part of a move to closer alignment with EU wiring practice (similar to your T&E going for equal-size CPCs)?
Or any other specific reason(s) for the preference?
Vortigern
Arms
Ok now you've got my dander up! Ring circuits will probably disappear eventually. But the reason is not some technical reason it is because of the dumbing down of the population in general. As regards the origins of the ring circuit it was maybe ahead of it's time ecologically as it was to save copper, ergo the natural environment. As you know I am an advocate of the ring circuit as per the other thread you referred to. Perhaps you are an agent provocateur insidiously dripping non reasons for getting rid of the ring circuit? It seems you don't like them with a vengeance. Which is a bit strange not to be dispassionate about a bit of wire and solely concentrate on the science and reasoning of each circuit type. Both have their merits and application, you just jolly well leave our ring circuits alone chappy.
In line with EU practice, Dual pole MCB's and radial circuits will halve the time taken for inspections and fault finding.
Dives for cover.
Dives for cover.
N
nicebutdim
In line with EU practice, Dual pole MCB's and radial circuits will halve the time taken for inspections and fault finding.
Dives for cover.
Does EU practice mandate that radial circuits run simply from point to point? If any branches are permitted then surely inspection and fault finding becomes less straightforward.
I ask this because I remember reading about some European countries where it was common to find radial circuits that branched off in many directions - sort of like a tree.
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