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I was talking ref our regs BS7671 only. other countries will differ but Europeans will have many similarities with ours although still some different quirks.

Trees are, in actuallity, the same whether they are all in the fuseway or in joint boxes (including ceiling roses, they are just a more pretty variant of a joint box really) .

Some of our lot get a bit hung up thinking that whilst a tree might be OK if the first split is from a joint box yet not at the fuseway, which is not logical if you think about it but it`s the wat they`ve been brought up.
Yet others seem to think a radial must to 1,2,3,4,5 ..... to N (N being the total number) in a straight chain.
Whilst more elegant and also easier to test, it is not mandated, just in the same way that a 1 ring ring final is not mandated.
Lassoos again likewise.
Just because something is not listed in the OSG (standard circuits) or the informative appendices of BS7671 does not mean that they do not conform to the regs.
 
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As an aside, still got my Sov test lamp, a classic bit of kit, no pics cus it's in me ex Sov box in the Garage
I have have a old(60s) Readers Diggest that shows you how to make your own continuity tester with this and your test lamp could really be something beautiful.
 

Pete999

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I have have a old(60s) Readers Diggest that shows you how to make your own continuity tester with this and your test lamp could really be something beautiful.
Does a lamp holder, a Sov Lamp and some wire help you. No you can't have it before you ask means so much to me, and I'm a tool tart as well.
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I have have a old(60s) Readers Diggest that shows you how to make your own continuity tester with this and your test lamp could really be something beautiful.
It is to me as much as my Sov tools
 
I was talking ref our regs BS7671 only. other countries will differ but Europeans will have many similarities with ours although still some different quirks.

Trees are, in actuallity, the same whether they are all in the fuseway or in joint boxes (including ceiling roses, they are just a more pretty variant of a joint box really) .

Some of our lot get a bit hung up thinking that whilst a tree might be OK if the first split is from a joint box yet not at the fuseway, which is not logical if you think about it but it`s the wat they`ve been brought up.
Yet others seem to think a radial must to 1,2,3,4,5 ..... to N (N being the total number) in a straight chain.
Whilst more elegant and also easier to test, it is not mandated, just in the same way that a 1 ring ring final is not mandated.
Lassoos again likewise.
Just because something is not listed in the OSG (standard circuits) or the informative appendices of BS7671 does not mean that they do not conform to the regs.
BS 7671 is nearly word for word from IEC it appears and your probably find more complex detail about Radials on Euro sites from what i've found today anything over Two cable in the MCB is not really designed to hold more that this.
 

pc1966

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That is against the French regulations no matter what the site or the people on it say.
Presumably the Wago-on-a-rail option is acceptable though? The issue is not having multiple wires in to the MCB's cable clamp?
 
The other link also shows 2 into one mcb - I don't have any idea if it complies or not but after searching a number of french sites(not easy for me I barley speak english) I goth the impression that 2 maximum, some forums saying MCB not designed for more than 2 cables - again I'm not saying it complies in anyway.
( I assume there French and not Belgium etc Don't know if there is much difference in there regs?)

In America a MCB must have rating for Double Tapping but seems to be totally different connection.
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ill have a look in L'installation electrique at some point.
 
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I goth the impression that 2 maximum, some forums saying MCB not designed for more than 2 cables - again I'm not saying it complies in anyway.
I've never seen the regs but a famous French electrician did a book based on the regs for DIY'ers and in his 2011 copy he shows several pics with 3 separate lighting runs into one MCB, so i'm presuming you were definitely allowed to do it at some point.

Having said that, i've seen older French electrics and it doesn't appear there were any regs at all that were being followed if the work was anything to go by.
 
can you try and find the name?
L'installation electrique is the most popular I would say great books.
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there is this book in English by a English guy, never read it.

 

Mike Johnson

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"Electricity in your French House" is so out of date and wrong in a number of places, and not just the text.

L'installation èlectrique is by Gallauziaux and Fedullo published by Eyrolles updated 2017:
amazon" style="max-width:120px">Amazon productView: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Linstallation-%C3%A9lectrique-Thierry-Gallauziaux/dp/2212674945/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=l%27installation+electrique&qid=1593295588&sr=8-1


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Presumably the Wago-on-a-rail option is acceptable though? The issue is not having multiple wires in to the MCB's cable clamp?
No the issue is not having multiple circuits protected by one MCB, the problem in France is that anyone can do their own thing in their property, there is no legislation to stop them, it's only if the property is let short or long term that any type of check is carried out, this also applies on re-sale, but as with all of these things it's a tick box exercise carried out by non electricians, the only time a domestic building is checked is if it requires a new installation, then the Consul will check, this may only consist of one socket and one lighting circuit, but if they conform to the Regulations then the power will be connected. :eek:
 
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Mike Johnson

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After further investigation I am now going to have to contradict myself, :mad: it seem you can have two circuits into one MCB, but only under special conditions, they being two circuits of two remote switched sockets in the same room and marked up as such, presumably for table lamps? It also says "This convention is not applicable with reciprocating circuits" make of that what you will?
 
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"This convention is not applicable with reciprocating circuits" make of that what you will?
Same author as BS 7671 ??
 
the problem in France is that anyone can do their own thing in their property, there is no legislation to stop them, it's only if the property is let short or long term that any type of check is carried out, this also applies on re-sale, but as with all of these things it's a tick box exercise carried out by non electricians, the only time a domestic building is checked is if it requires a new installation, then the Consul will check, this may only consist of one socket and one lighting circuit, but if they conform to the Regulations then the power will be connected. :eek:
I've just sold my French house and you're right - the only check done was the diagnostique guy sticking some machine into the sockets and that was it.

It's funny though - with all our legislation and rules and schemes etc European countries still insist we're 'unregulated' compared to them and their standards. Bit batty if you ask me.
 

Mike Johnson

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They look down their respective nose's at the UK because of the use of Ring Mains and only just insisting on two RCD's in our DB's. Try telling a French Electrician that it's now called a Final Ring Circuit and see how profound the shrug of the shoulders would be. :cool:

I think the French are trying to tighten up on the Diagnostique, I have read somewhere they have to push the test button on the RCD's. :rolleyes: What they most seem to be interested in now is Equipotential Bonding to the service's and bathrooms, but at least it's become a three page Diagnostique tick list.
 
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I sent a message to hager asking how many cables can be terminated into a MCB and here is detailed reply LOL!

Good Afternoon

You can only fit one cable into a MCB

Technical Support

Hager Ltd


So no more Rings:tearsofjoy:
 

DPG

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I sent a message to hager asking how many cables can be terminated into a MCB and here is detailed reply LOL!

Good Afternoon

You can only fit one cable into a MCB

Technical Support

Hager Ltd


So no more Rings:tearsofjoy:
Can't believe their tech support dept said that. I would be taking that a bit further.
 
What about both ends of the same cable?
Yeah why not a mini ring ;)
 
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