Size of shower cable

[Bensen]

Hey what kilowatt showers can be feed off 6mm cable and which need 10mm? I guess the distance from the fuse board also needs taking in to account?

 

[andyelectric]

Been reading this thread with interest. Whilst I do not agree that there is an 'inner circle' on here I do feel that there some pretty much 'hardcore' views that have been agreed on by a large group. A large number (but not all) of this large group are on other sites where they seem freer to 'co-ordinate' viewpoints about certain things.

Here's the 3 points I think that have been agreed.

1. If a person is asking a question and is not a 'qualified electrician' only the answer get a qualified electrician in is appropriate.
2. To be a 'qualified electrician' only a time served apprenticeship is appropriate. Electrical Trainee do not count.
3. Due to the fact that the government through Competent Person Scheme seems to be recognising Electrical Trainee reform of the industry is required. A proper register limiting electrical work to those in (2.) is required.

All these 3 statement are applied under the guise of public safety. And I do not dispute that application of these statements would improve safety. (How much is subjective).

It is my feeling though that the main thrust is to 'preserve the bottom line'.

1. Try and prevent diy if it could mean a sparkie getting the work.
2/3. Try and keep this work to 'proper sparkies' that have completed the same training as us, cause that'll push prices back up.

Let me qualify by saying that I know there will be many that fall on the safety as opposed to profit side of my above statement, so please don't just try to shout me down as it is pretty obvious no one is going to admit being on the other 'purely profit motivated' side of the fence.

 

[Anthony S]

Been reading this thread with interest. Whilst I do not agree that there is an 'inner circle' on here I do feel that there some pretty much 'hardcore' views that have been agreed on by a large group. A large number (but not all) of this large group are on other sites where they seem freer to 'co-ordinate' viewpoints about certain things.

Its not hard core views, it the case that there's a few members/posters who know their stuff and they try to advise others, but it comes across as though they are digging people out when they are not and people take it to heart.

 

[Guest77]

I'd best not use my shower until I've got my metal CU fitted then.

Very true, and the 8.5 kw shower which is working at my parents house wired in a 6mm2 cable which is at least 12 years old now must be switched off immediately as well.

 

[telectrix]

Very true, and the 8.5 kw shower which is working at my parents house wired in a 6mm2 cable which is at least 12 years old now must be switched off immediately as well.

so, wtf do you know about showers?

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/chit-chat-off-topic/98832-help-please-3.html

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

[Andy78]

Been reading this thread with interest. Whilst I do not agree that there is an 'inner circle' on here I do feel that there some pretty much 'hardcore' views that have been agreed on by a large group. A large number (but not all) of this large group are on other sites where they seem freer to 'co-ordinate' viewpoints about certain things.

Here's the 3 points I think that have been agreed.

1. If a person is asking a question and is not a 'qualified electrician' only the answer get a qualified electrician in is appropriate.
2. To be a 'qualified electrician' only a time served apprenticeship is appropriate. Electrical Trainee do not count.
3. Due to the fact that the government through Competent Person Scheme seems to be recognising Electrical Trainee reform of the industry is required. A proper register limiting electrical work to those in (2.) is required.

All these 3 statement are applied under the guise of public safety. And I do not dispute that application of these statements would improve safety. (How much is subjective).

It is my feeling though that the main thrust is to 'preserve the bottom line'.

1. Try and prevent diy if it could mean a sparkie getting the work.
2/3. Try and keep this work to 'proper sparkies' that have completed the same training as us, cause that'll push prices back up.

Let me qualify by saying that I know there will be many that fall on the safety as opposed to profit side of my above statement, so please don't just try to shout me down as it is pretty obvious no one is going to admit being on the other 'purely profit motivated' side of the fence.

You can file me under both your categories. However when dishing advice on the internet it's the safety aspect that is the overruling one for me, as anonymity is a veil that prevents me from easily assessing someone I have never met.
When it comes to basic questions such as this one, anyone who should know, should know and anyone who doesn't know shouldn't be doing it and should not be advised how to.
There are certain tasks that I feel DIYers should be able to carry out in their own home. Unfortunately I also don't advise on that on this forum due to the anonymity issue again, and the way the DIY forum is set up on here.
My reluctance to give information due to safety is purely a "getting to sleep at night" thing and not to do with legal implications.
Week after week members on here give advice to new members with 1 post count both in the main and DIY forum, which is totally irresponsible in my book.

 

[pennychew]

Very true, and the 8.5 kw shower which is working at my parents house wired in a 6mm2 cable which is at least 12 years old now must be switched off immediately as well.

Not when one of thems using it though, that would be mean

 

[shanky887614]

Using 6mm to supply an 8.5kw shower is WRONG.
Unless your a qualified electrician you should NOT be doing the job because of the many variables, and safety is paramount.
But real world scenario is often very different, and in your working life you will often come across situations that conflict with calculations, and regs.
When that happens you need to ask, how so !!
As an example there are situations where an 8.5 kw shower will be fed from a 6mm cable on a 32 amp mcb over many years and show no signs of thermal damage, or have given any problems to the user.
Calculations and regs will say otherwise, real life is often very different.
Of course your maxing these situations out, which is far from a good idea.
next time your running an 8.5kw shower.
Check your 230v supply and see what your really getting. Clamp test the shower and see what its really pulling.
Then maybe you will see why sometimes 6mm will appear to suffice despite all the theory.
ITS still WRONG and I don't dispute that but it is possible.
My comments are for qualified electricians, not for Joe public.
So Joe public take note. The fall out I am receiving is to protect YOU not me.

your a fool if you believe that, your cable calcs will prove otherwise, an 8.5kw shower is a 37amp load so 40a mcb will do which means 6mm is fine not allowing for any derating factors

 

[baldsparkies]

your a fool if you believe that, your cable calcs will prove otherwise, an 8.5kw shower is a 37amp load so 40a mcb will do which means 6mm is fine not allowing for any derating factors

Here we go again.
Why conclude that someone is a fool without thinking your statement through.
How can you possibly say that 6mm is fine, and then follow up by saying (by not allowing any de rating factor)
That's the entire point of being a qualified electrician.
You WILL include de rating factors into your calculations, joe public will not.
What I am saying is that its wrong to make a blanket decision regarding 6mm.
Hence my comment (Broadly speaking, up to 8.5kw 6mm beyond that 10mm) but and its a big but other variables have and should always be taken into account.
If your unsure what those variables are or how to apply them then consult a qualified electrician.
I sometimes feel that often comments are miss-read, miss-understood, or even miss-phrased by the poster.
But I find it a bit sad and disappointing when there are people that you respect, waiting to pounce on your every word with the sole intention of calling you a fool, blind, or even incompetent.
Nothing I have said is either wrong, or inaccurate.
Sometimes you just need to think outside the box, and give the other guy a bit of breathing space.
As qualified electricians we should all be able to do this without throwing around insults based on our individual points of view or opinions.
As said real world it simply doesn't work that way.
That's why on the forum you will call a 6' 6" bloke all muscle and weighing 18 stone a dick head.
And in the real world, keep it to yourself and call him a dick head under your breath lol xx

 

[Guest125]

in this case what the op was asking is ohm's law, the basic's of the basics.


V=R/I
I=R/V
R=IxV

bassically to start with a 10kw shower would be 10,000 / 230 = 43Amps

so now you have your design current for your cable calc.

the cable you need for a 10kw shower depends on installation methods (clipped direct)

if it has loads of insulation along the route and other factors you might need a 16+mm cable (this is why we calculate cables in the first place)


and to answer your question, the members here get that bored and wound up from giving people the same advice everyday on how to wire a shed they get ratty

If I do not want to give advice then I just don't. Surely this would be a better way to approach a thread that someone feels is not worth their time rather that slagging off other posters?

 

[Guest125]

Using 6mm to supply an 8.5kw shower is WRONG.
Unless your a qualified electrician you should NOT be doing the job because of the many variables, and safety is paramount.
But real world scenario is often very different, and in your working life you will often come across situations that conflict with calculations, and regs.
When that happens you need to ask, how so !!
As an example there are situations where an 8.5 kw shower will be fed from a 6mm cable on a 32 amp mcb over many years and show no signs of thermal damage, or have given any problems to the user.
Calculations and regs will say otherwise, real life is often very different.
Of course your maxing these situations out, which is far from a good idea.
next time your running an 8.5kw shower.
Check your 230v supply and see what your really getting. Clamp test the shower and see what its really pulling.
Then maybe you will see why sometimes 6mm will appear to suffice despite all the theory.
ITS still WRONG and I don't dispute that but it is possible.
My comments are for qualified electricians, not for Joe public.
So Joe public take note. The fall out I am receiving is to protect YOU not me.

We are putting in new shower supplies in at Clapham.

8.5kW = 37A
40A OCPD required
single cable in surface trunking has a max of 41A for 6mm cable.

6mm cable it is then...

 

[Octopus]

We are putting in new shower supplies in at Clapham.

5.8kW = 37A
40A OCPD required
single cable in surface trunking has a max of 41A for 6mm cable.

6mm cable it is then...

So you are back and immediately you are being a dxck.

Please don't hand out detailed advice on the public forum

Thanks

 

[Guest125]

Here we go again.
Why conclude that someone is a fool without thinking your statement through.
How can you possibly say that 6mm is fine, and then follow up by saying (by not allowing any de rating factor)
That's the entire point of being a qualified electrician.
You WILL include de rating factors into your calculations, joe public will not.
What I am saying is that its wrong to make a blanket decision regarding 6mm.
Hence my comment (Broadly speaking, up to 8.5kw 6mm beyond that 10mm) but and its a big but other variables have and should always be taken into account.
If your unsure what those variables are or how to apply them then consult a qualified electrician.
I sometimes feel that often comments are miss-read, miss-understood, or even miss-phrased by the poster.
But I find it a bit sad and disappointing when there are people that you respect, waiting to pounce on your every word with the sole intention of calling you a fool, blind, or even incompetent.
Nothing I have said is either wrong, or inaccurate.
Sometimes you just need to think outside the box, and give the other guy a bit of breathing space.
As qualified electricians we should all be able to do this without throwing around insults based on our individual points of view or opinions.
As said real world it simply doesn't work that way.
That's why on the forum you will call a 6' 6" bloke all muscle and weighing 18 stone a dick head.
And in the real world, keep it to yourself and call him a dick head under your breath lol xx

There does appear to be a few on here that know full well that a post is meant generally and they enjoy to show how big their BS7671 testicles are and pick holes rather than just give their version of a solution.

 

[Guest125]

So you are back and immediately you are being a dxck.

Please don't hand out detailed advice on the public forum

Thanks

Please do not call me that.

It was NOT advice for the Op but a direct REPLY to the quote saying that a 6mm cable could not be used. The reply was quoted so I though that would be obvious. On top of that I wrote WE. As in WE are doing this. WE are qualified electricians. and WE are doing the work.

 

[shanky887614]

Please do not call me that.

It was NOT advice for the Op but a direct REPLY to the quote saying that a 6mm cable could not be used. The reply was quoted so I though that would be obvious. On top of that I wrote WE. As in WE are doing this. WE are qualified electricians. and WE are doing the work.

i think you have a typo mate.

i think you mean 8.5

 

[Guest125]

i think you have a typo mate.

you put 5.8kw i think you mean 8.5

Yeah sorry. I will now climb off my high horse.