Socket in airing cupboard

[crotley32]

Im currently doing a EICR report they have a socket in a airing cuoboard which used a to have a shower pump plugged now has the vacuum.charging. the distance from the bath is well within zone 2 but is in a seperate cupboard what C classification would you give this?

 

[westward10]

Must be very close to bath if within zone 2.

 

[Octopus]

It's in a cupboard so no code

 

[crotley32]

The cupboard is next to the bath its actually in zone 3 with the measurement.
So this is a no code even though it could be used to plug in say a hairdryer or something and be used in the bathroom?

 

[Wilko]

If cupboard needed a tool to open then that's ok. But I'm not sure it's the same as putting it otherside of the bathroom door ?
With my tin hat on, I'd be tempted to C2 it as if the cupboard door was not there ... BTW, is there an RCD ?

 

[crotley32]

No rcd but i am doing a EICR before i do a consumer change all circuirs have tested out fine this is the only issue ive come accross. I think I will disconnect and tell the customer its a no no

 

[Paul.M]

As per Murdoch, no code due to it being in a cupboard. Advise the client to have it changed for an RCD socket in case of bathroom appliances get plugged into it (hair dryers/shavers etc).

 

[Des 56]

The extent of the special location is limited by the airing cupboard doors
With that in mind the socket location is fine

If on the other hand you were installing sockets and felt personally that you need to account for a idiot plugging an item in an airing cupboard or landing socket and hoovering their hair whilst playing in the Bath then advize accordingly

 

[westward10]

I haven't looked this up, am not disagreeing with the views given and not being near to a set of Regs where does it state zones do not include cupboards.

 

[Andy78]

I haven't looked this up, am not disagreeing with the views given and not being near to a set of Regs where does it state zones do not include cupboards.

As far as I know the regs only state that no sockets shall be within 3m of the boundary of zone 1.
I know of no reg that exempts the inside of a cupboard from being part of the special location.

 

[westward10]

As far as I know the regs only state that no sockets shall be within 3m of the boundary of zone 1.
I know of no reg that exempts the inside of a cupboard from being part of the special location.

Yes I was thinking the 3m part but the cupboard rang no bells, so from this I would conclude there should be no socket there?

 

[Andy78]

Yes I was thinking the 3m part but the cupboard rang no bells, so from this I would conclude there should be no socket there?

I would conclude this too. Can anyone who posted above who advised no code provide reasoning behind this ? Seems to be a commonly held view so there must be some basis in official guidance at least.

 

[Midwest]

As far as I know the regs only state that no sockets shall be within 3m of the boundary of zone 1.
I know of no reg that exempts the inside of a cupboard from being part of the special location.

That's knackered my landing socket then. I'll have to remove it

 

[Andy78]

That's knackered my landing socket then. I'll have to remove it

Unless your landing has a bath or shower on it you should be ok regs wise. I have one in this proximity too but it doesn't fall into the special location defined in section 701.

 

[westward10]

That's knackered my landing socket then. I'll have to remove it

I think you would have to think any socket in a house could be used to provide power in a bathroom but the 3m rule applies to within, a rather large bathroom.

 

[Midwest]

Thought that would bring some consternation. A cupboard is still another room, even within a bathroom - there's some big cupboards out there. My ensuite has a socket just outside its door, i.e. within 3 metres. My ensuite is a cupboard (its a small ensuite!) to my bedroom.

Frankly I wouldn't put a socket anywhere in a bathroom, even if it was over 3 metres.

 

[Andy78]

Thought that would bring some consternation. A cupboard is still another room, even within a bathroom - there's some big cupboards out there. My ensuite has a socket just outside its door, i.e. within 3 metres. My ensuite is a cupboard (its a small ensuite!) to my bedroom.

Frankly I wouldn't put a socket anywhere in a bathroom, even if it was over 3 metres.

A cupboard is another room ? What about the one with mirrored doors I keep my toothbrush in ? What about the vanity unit under my basin ?

 

[Midwest]

A cupboard is another room ? What about the one with mirrored doors I keep my toothbrush in ? What about the vanity unit under my basin ?

I got a cupboard under my stairs, I can walk into that. Not sure you can walk into your vanity basin cupboard, unless your Peter Dinklage

 

[Andy78]

I got a cupboard under my stairs, I can walk into that. Not sure you can walk into your vanity basin, unless your Peter Dinklage

So a cupboard is defined as another room if you can walk into it and therefore exempt from the rules of section 701 ? I can't recall seeing that bit in the regs.

 

[westward10]

I might put a socket in my bathroom and fit a cupboard big enough to enclose it and put a bar of soap in, exemption job done.

 

[Des 56]

I haven't looked this up, am not disagreeing with the views given and not being near to a set of Regs where does it state zones do not include cupboards.

I won't quote he whole of the reg but the relevant part of 701.32.1

When applying this section Zones specified in blah blah shall be taken into account,it goes on
Inclined ceilings,walls,fixed partitions,DOORS effectively limit the extent of the location containing a Bath or Shower as well as their zones

 

[Andy78]

I won't quote he whole of the reg but the relevant part of 701.32.1

When applying this section Zones specified in blah blah shall be taken into account,it goes on
Inclined ceilings,walls,fixed partitions,DOORS effectively limit the extent of the location containing a Bath or Shower as well as their zones

Excellent. Thanks for that.

 

[Midwest]

So a cupboard is defined as another room if you can walk into it and therefore exempt from the rules of section 701 ? I can't recall seeing that bit in the regs.

I recently did a bathroom refurb', which had a cupboard within it, containing the hot water cylinder & new power shower pump etc, and was within 3 metres etc. The power shower needed a new supply, I provided a new FCU.

However, lets go crazy, and say the manufacturer of the shower pump said don't cut off my plug top. I would of installed a socket outlet in that cupboard. Making that risk assessment, as the customer will have only used the socket for the power shower and I would explain why not to use it for anything else. Would the customer unplug their power shower to plug in a hoover? If at a later date, a new owner used it to plug in a toaster, well more fool them. As I said before, I wouldn't install a socket in a bathroom, even outside of 3 meters, 'cos my customer wanted to plug in his hairdryer.

The regs are there for guidance, they can't account for ever eventuality. A mediocre modicum (sorry Sparksburntout done it again) amount of common sense needs to be applied , surely?

 

[Wilko]

My thought is this cupboard is in the bathroom. So it's in the special location and accessed when standing in the special location. Looks, like, smells like ... Otherwise we'd all be installing sockets in medicine cabinets, surely?

 

[Wilko]

I won't quote he whole of the reg but the relevant part of 701.32.1

When applying this section Zones specified in blah blah shall be taken into account,it goes on
Inclined ceilings,walls,fixed partitions,DOORS effectively limit the extent of the location containing a Bath or Shower as well as their zones

I thought this refers to a door commonly fitted at the entrance to a room, or is it thought they meant anything with a flap and a hinge?

 

[DPG]

I recently did a bathroom refurb', which had a cupboard within it, containing the hot water cylinder & new power shower pump etc, and was within 3 metres etc. The power shower needed a new supply, I provided a new FCU.

However, lets go crazy, and say the manufacturer of the shower pump said don't cut off my plug top. I would of installed a socket outlet in that cupboard. Making that risk assessment, as the customer will have only used the socket for the power shower and I would explain why not to use it for anything else. Would the customer unplug their power shower to plug in a hoover? If at a later date, a new owner used it to plug in a toaster, well more fool them. As I said before, I wouldn't install a socket in a bathroom, even outside of 3 meters, 'cos my customer wanted to plug in his hairdryer.

The regs are there for guidance, they can't account for ever eventuality. A mediocre modicum (sorry Sparksburntout done it again) amount of common sense needs to be applied , surely?

1. Oh God, no. Not this again.
2. Don't worry Sparksy can't hear you - he's banned I think

Dazburnsout.

 

[Andy78]

I recently did a bathroom refurb', which had a cupboard within it, containing the hot water cylinder & new power shower pump etc, and was within 3 metres etc. The power shower needed a new supply, I provided a new FCU.

However, lets go crazy, and say the manufacturer of the shower pump said don't cut off my plug top. I would of installed a socket outlet in that cupboard. Making that risk assessment, as the customer will have only used the socket for the power shower and I would explain why not to use it for anything else. Would the customer unplug their power shower to plug in a hoover? If at a later date, a new owner used it to plug in a toaster, well more fool them. As I said before, I wouldn't install a socket in a bathroom, even outside of 3 meters, 'cos my customer wanted to plug in his hairdryer.

The regs are there for guidance, they can't account for ever eventuality. A mediocre modicum (sorry Sparksburntout done it again) amount of common sense needs to be applied , surely?

I do agree that common sense applies yes. I was asking for clarification on a point of the regs though, which as we know, do not always go hand in hand with common sense.

I have plenty of functional accessories in my own bathroom which I consider perfectly safe because I know the use of them and the users.
I would not fit a socket in a bathroom, even in a partitioned cupboard, for any purpose though. The specific use of a socket cannot be guaranteed despite explanation and the assumed common sense of all users. That's my take on common sense, my own working practices, and my own arse covering nature.

 

[Richard Burns]

GN7 gives the advice that a bathroom cupboard limits the zones if the door is toward the bath but the zone extends into the cupboard if the door opens near the bath.
I attach the diagram on the left from GN7 and after some "careful" editing created the diagram on the right to show the alternative.

View attachment 35841

 

[Dave OCD]

Well if the owner insists he/she wants to continue charging the cordless vacuum in there just hard wire the charging base into a weatherproof switched FCU, in fact a normal one would do but for a few quid more why not.

 

[westward10]

Well if the owner insists he/she wants to continue charging the cordless vacuum in there just hard wire the charging base into a weatherproof switched FCU, in fact a normal one would do but for a few quid more why not.

It is probably an encapsulated power supply.

 

[Midwest]

Don't worry Sparksy can't hear you - he's banned I think

Dazburnsout.

I know, but like the rest of us banned or otherwise, he'll have nothing else better to do!

 

[Midwest]

Edit; Balls'd up again

 

[Dave OCD]

It is probably an encapsulated power supply.

Good point !

 

[Deleted member 26818]

In most cases, and airing cupboard would be deemed as being outside of a location containing a bath or shower. Even if it was in a bathroom or accessible from within a bathroom.

 

[telectrix]

simple solution.fit the socket. move the bath to the shed. also has the advantage that 'er indoors singing in the bath don't interfere with me watching discovery channel docs.

 

[crotley32]

Thanks guys sometimes I wonder how were supposed to remember all these rules and regs. Half the battle is interpretting them

 

[Midwest]

Half the battle is interpretting them

One man's meat is another man's poison, unless vultures are involved; they eat anything

 

[telectrix]

One man's meat is another man's poison, unless vultures are involved; they eat anything

back to the no win no fee solicitors then?

 

[Taylortwocities]

The cupboard is next to the bath its actually in zone 3 with the measurement.

Zone 3? There's no such zone.

 

[HandySparks]

Zone 3? There's no such zone.