Test failed due to missing RCD

[Peterpipe]

Hi All
Recently joined the forum to ask for some information.
I recently bought a flat to let. I was advised by the letting agent to get the electrics tested, although not a legal requirement. The test was carried out by their electrical contractor. He failed the test due to the fuse board not having an RCD fitted. The fuse board is the original board fitted in 2003 when the flats where built. There has been no mods or circuits added to the system and everything is working as it should. I paid £348.00 for the test and the RCD to be installed. I have since been told that the test should not have failed due to the lack of the RCD. Have I been stitched up.
Any comments gratefully recieved
Peter

 

[Octopus]

OK we will assume said electrician is self employed, irrespective of the possible dubious worth of installing an up-front RCD. No holiday pay, no sick pay, scheme fees, insurance, accountants, and so on. You have no idea of the costs involved, do you? How much rent are you charging your Tenant? Bet it's a hell of a lot more than £348 pcm, and your probably depriving someone of buying a first home to boot.

So you think £192 to fit an RCD in place of a main switch acceptable?

I don't

 

[MJPD29]

I agree with the spark. Landlords and letting agents can be downright ridiculous when it comes to things like this and you've done the right thing by paying for an EICR and an RCD at least your one of the few who keeps everything right and effectively keeping your tenants safer should an fault condition arise

 

[sparksburnout]

@sparksburnout

You seem to be disagreeing with some of the comments on here ........ why, what is your opinion?

@Peterpipe

Have you received the invoice? Maybe not pay it until you have received the paperwork.

You need an EICR and a MWC or EIC with the invoice

...........

Yes I have disagreed with a couple of the comments on here, it is allowed you know? I think I have made my comments fairly clearly, maybe you need to read through the posts. You yourself agreed with it being madness not to have RCD protection in a rental property so you have lost me on my first one. Regarding the second, I do work for a local estate agent, never had any problems or complaints from any direction, so it is unfair of you to generalise in my opinion. Who are we to know the costs involved in this particular job? Presumably they were agreed between the spark involved and the Landlord beforehand? If not then they should have been.

 

[Octopus]

Who are we to know the costs involved in this particular job? Presumably they were agreed between the spark involved and the Landlord beforehand? If not then they should have been.

The way the OP has presented the information to us is that he wasn't given the choice, or, more importantly the opportunity to get another quote.

A photo of the board would be useful.

As for lettings and estate agents - they have a pretty awful reputation for this sort of thing and I normally decline opportunities from said organisations ............... I do work directly for home / flat owners and make sure that they understand the ins and outs of what is needed ............ and often suggest they get a 2nd opinion.

 

[elsparko]

only new builds and modifications to existing circuits that require rcd protection

existing properties it is a c3 at best.

 

[Peterpipe]

Thanks for all your comments it has been very interesting. My interpretation from what you have said is that not having an RCD in the fuse board is an advisory not a fail, although in everyone's opinion, including mine, it is an important safety device and should be fitted, so he duped me into having it fitted rather than advising me and he overcharged me for fitting the RCD.
Thanks again Peter

 

[Midwest]

Yes I have disagreed with a couple of the comments on here, it is allowed you know? I think I have made my comments fairly clearly, maybe you need to read through the posts. You yourself agreed with it being madness not to have RCD protection in a rental property so you have lost me on my first one. Regarding the second, I do work for a local estate agent, never had any problems or complaints from any direction, so it is unfair of you to generalise in my opinion. Who are we to know the costs involved in this particular job? Presumably they were agreed between the spark involved and the Landlord beforehand? If not then they should have been.

The way the OP has presented the information to us is that he wasn't given the choice, or, more importantly the opportunity to get another quote.

A photo of the board would be useful.

As for lettings and estate agents - they have a pretty awful reputation for this sort of thing and I normally decline opportunities from said organisations ............... I do work directly for home / flat owners and make sure that they understand the ins and outs of what is needed ............ and often suggest they get a 2nd opinion.

I don't want to get in between the two of you , but my eldest has rented for over ten years, and moved several times due to work etc. Slightly off topic, first time he moved we cleaned. Ended up getting 'fined' for dust on top of mirrors etc. Next time he moved, we got a cleaning company in. Letting agent said wasn't clean enough, should of used one we recommend, fined! Next time we used one recommended by letting agent, fined 'cos it weren't one used by that particular housing association. Next one we used everyone recommended by all, tried to fine 'cos the oven that was professionally cleaned, wasn't cleaned enough! This time we had enough and said -------s, sues us. Silence was golden.

I know there are some ---- tenants out there, but the rest seem to have to pay for it. Rant over.

Hope your not like this Peter.

PS underlined wasn't quite right, we had to respectfully refer them to the fact we used who their all recommended.

 

[sparksburnout]

The way the OP has presented the information to us is that he wasn't given the choice, or, more importantly the opportunity to get another quote.

A photo of the board would be useful.

As for lettings and estate agents - they have a pretty awful reputation for this sort of thing and I normally decline opportunities from said organisations ............... I do work directly for home / flat owners and make sure that they understand the ins and outs of what is needed ............ and often suggest they get a 2nd opinion.

Hey, don't get me wrong. Estate agents, letting agents in particular, lower than a snakes --- in my opinion. They are all part of the modern disease that is rental. Trust me, I know, my lad has suffered from the worst of them. The one I deal with is OK though, there are some. Like I said earlier, maybe we are not in full possession of all the facts here, I am just trying to look at it from the sparks point of view, however now we are into charging for up front RCD's you have to start wondering.

 

[Pete999]

H

I have not received the report yet, I guess it is in the post. It will be interesting to see what it says.

You should have recievedthe report at the end of the job, before he got paid, some guys will dispute that I'm sure.

 

[elsparko]

in fairness though the sparky could have moved the circuits down and fitted an rcd in the spare 2 ways

 

[sparksburnout]

H

I don't want to get in between the two of you , but my eldest has rented for over ten years, and moved several times due to work etc. Slightly off topic, first time he moved we cleaned. Ended up getting 'fined' for dust on top of mirrors etc. Next time he moved, we got a cleaning company in. Letting agent said wasn't clean enough, should of used one we recommend, fined! Next time we used one recommended by letting agent, fined 'cos it weren't one used by that particular housing association. Next one we used everyone recommended by all, tried to fine 'cos the oven that was professionally cleaned, wasn't cleaned enough! This time we had enough and said ********, sues us. Silence was golden.

I know there are some **** tenants out there, but the rest seem to have to pay for it. Rant over.

Hope your not like this Peter.

PS underlined wasn't quite right, we had to respectfully refer them to the fact we used who their all recommended.

He must have shared with my son. I could write a book mate, people who have no experience of this wouldn't believe half of it.

 

[Des 56]

The eicr price was acceptable,the Rcd price (even if there were problems to sort out) it leans on the side of one big ---- take

Any problems installing a Rcd could and should have been identified by the eicr

Its a ten minute job to install and test
Add in some time to go and get the thing if needs be, a percentage knock up on the £45 cost and a contribution to overheads the job was maximum £90

 

[Peterpipe]

Three friends of mine have rented out flats, all have had bad experiences with tenants and would never do it again. One friend bought a flat and has not had any problems or set foot in the flat for eleven years. It has cost a lot and taken me months to get the flat up to a good standard. I hope the tenants do not change me into a bad landlord.

 

[Des 56]

I am not by any stretch of the imagination pro private rental
(Whatever happened to our millions of excellent council house stock ?)It was ripped to shreds in the name of the free market

Its your property,you worked to pay to make the investment and it should be kept in as good condition as found,it should also be given the respect as if it were the tenants own property

The rental market in the UK must be the wackiest and most useless system for all parties anywhere in Europe

 

[Octopus]

A far better solution would have been rcbo's for the socket circuits.

 

[sparksburnout]

The eicr price was acceptable,the Rcd price (even if there were problems to sort out) it leans on the side of one big **** take

Any problems installing a Rcd could and should have been identified by the eicr

Its a ten minute job to install and test
Add in some time to go and get the thing if needs be, a percentage knock up on the £45 cost and a contribution to overheads the job was maximum £90

Three friends of mine have rented out flats, all have had bad experiences with tenants and would never do it again. One friend bought a flat and has not had any problems or set foot in the flat for eleven years. It has cost a lot and taken me months to get the flat up to a good standard. I hope the tenants do not change me into a bad landlord.

So if these 3 friends have had bad experiences why did you follow in their footsteps, if i might ask?

 

[sparksburnout]

I am not by any stretch of the imagination pro private rental
(Whatever happened to our millions of excellent council house stock ?)It was ripped to shreds in the name of the free market

Its your property,you worked to pay to make the investment and it should be kept in as good condition as found,it should also be given the respect as if it were the tenants own property

The rental market in the UK must be the wackiest and most useless system for all parties anywhere in Europe

Never was a truer word spoken.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

only new builds and modifications to existing circuits that require rcd protection

existing properties it is a c3 at best.

So you'd code 3 an external socket without RCD protection in an existing property?

 

[Toneyz]

A far better solution would have been rcbo's for the socket circuits.

I was just going to post the same Murdoch installing a RCD for the whole installation is asking for trouble the OP is going to like being called out when the whole flat has no electric due to a single fault rather than just tripping out one of the socket circuits.

 

[sparksburnout]

I was just going to post the same Murdoch installing a RCD for the whole installation is asking for trouble the OP is going to like being called out when the whole flat has no electric due to a single fault rather than just tripping out one of the socket circuits.

Never mind anyone getting "called out" the point in question was the safety of the landlords Tenants. Would you be happy if one of your family was living in a rental with no RCD protection? I will assume a "no" to that one, you can always take another view of course.

 

[sparksburnout]

Well, Murdoch, forgive me for being a little obtuse here, but I can't help but feeling your "disagree" is a little "--- for tat", to be honest. Maybe you would be cool with one of your family living in a rental with no RCD protection, I certainly would not.

 

[sparksburnout]

Well, Murdoch, forgive me for being a little obtuse here, but I can't help but feeling your "disagree" is a little "--- for tat", to be honest. Maybe you would be cool with one of your family living in a rental with no RCD protection, I certainly would not. Given your previous posts I would suggest you are arguing yourself up your own --- to be honest matey.

 

[Mjgriff82]

First post on this site,

If this was a flat on a floor other than GF, code 3, if on GF, code 2 as it should have been installed to the 16yh edition. For the cost the spark in question could have fitted RCbo’s to the socket outlet circuits, carried out all retests and issued certs to cover the work

 

[Mjgriff82]

First post on this site,

If this was a flat on a floor other than GF, code 3, if on GF, code 2 as it should have been installed to the 16yh edition. For the cost the spark in question could have fitted RCbo’s to the socket outlet circuits, carried out all retests and issued certs to cover the work

 

[buzzlightyear]

recently bought a flat to let. I was advised by the letting agent to get the electrics tested, although not a legal requirement. The test was carried out by their electrical contractor. He failed the test due to the fuse board not having an RCD fitted. The fuse board is the original board fitted in 2003 when the flats where built. There has been no mods or circuits added to the system and everything is working as it should. I paid £348.00 for the test and the RCD to be installed. I have since been told that the test should not have failed due to the lack of the RCD. Have I been stitched up.
Any comments gratefully recieved

WHAT IS THE TEST DATE ON THE CONSUMER UNIT AND NEXT TEST DATE !

 

[Toneyz]

t you are arguing yourself up your own --- to be honest matey.

Sorry but I find this comment a bit harsh.

 

[sparksburnout]

WHAT IS THE TEST DATE ON THE CONSUMER UNIT AND NEXT TEST DATE !

CHANGE OF OCCUPANCY WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING??

 

[buzzlightyear]

A far better solution would have been rcbo's for the socket circuits.

so cables buried in a wall don't count then mr M

 

[sparksburnout]

Sorry but I find this comment a bit harsh.

go and have a beer then

 

[Toneyz]

so cables buried in a wall don't count them mr M

Depends if the tenant is allowed to drill holes and fix things to the wall.

 

[sparksburnout]

First post on this site,

If this was a flat on a floor other than GF, code 3, if on GF, code 2 as it should have been installed to the 16yh edition. For the cost the spark in question could have fitted RCbo’s to the socket outlet circuits, carried out all retests and issued certs to cover the work

Really? How about if there are no RCBO's that will fit?

 

[Peterpipe]

I need an income and I hope it will not happen to me.
The flat is on the second floor.
I thought the EICR lasts 5 years

 

[Oli G]

Nobody has mentioned that no RCD protection to circuits serving a room with a fixed bath or shower would be a Code 2. So I'm assuming the bathroom has a light and possibly a shower?
However, I agree that individual RCBOs would have been the best solution.

 

[Octopus]

I thought the EICR lasts 5 years

The time between inspections is determined by the inspector and its the time he/she puts on the form OR change of tenancy, which ever comes first.

If the test results are poor, the retest could be 1 year.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I need an income and I hope it will not happen to me.
The flat is on the second floor.
I thought the EICR lasts 5 years

An EICR does not 'last', there is simply a recommendation of the maximum period between inspections. Change of occupancy or particularly onerous tenants may mean an EICR should be carried out at reduced intervals.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Nobody has mentioned that no RCD protection to circuits serving a room with a fixed bath or shower would be a Code 2. So I'm assuming the bathroom has a light and possibly a shower?
However, I agree that individual RCBOs would have been the best solution.

Not if supplementary bonding is in place.

 

[Octopus]

Nobody has mentioned that no RCD protection to circuits serving a room with a fixed bath or shower would be a Code 2. So I'm assuming the bathroom has a light and possibly a shower?

Not convinced I agree with that statement.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Should not have failed due to lack of RCD protection.
Flat was converted in 2003, no requirement at that time for RCD protection, other than for sockets which could reasonably be expected to supply portable equipment outdoors.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Never mind anyone getting "called out" the point in question was the safety of the landlords Tenants. Would you be happy if one of your family was living in a rental with no RCD protection? I will assume a "no" to that one, you can always take another view of course.

I would be perfectly happy for any member of my family to live in a flat above ground level without RCD protection. Presumably all flats were electrical death traps until the fairly recent introduction of blanket RCD coverage? I don't think so.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I would be perfectly happy for any member of my family to live in a flat above ground level without RCD protection

and till some one with a big F88k drill starts putting holes I the walls for pictures, especially with concrete floors .