NICEIC Certification Scheme Tips for my first niceic inspection

[Sparksaflyin]

They will have sent it to you when you applied or else it is on their website.
It tells you exactly what you need to have and what to expect.

I got an email with a list of paperwork I needed to sort out and that’s about it

 

[Sparksaflyin]

What times are those? If you are working live then you will be following a very detailed plan of the work written specifically for the task and will be using temporary insulation, fully insulated tools etc and wearing suitable fire resistant clothing, arc shields etc. None of this makes safe isolation a 'little bit obsolete'

Anyway, I thought you said earlier you only do domestic? There's never a need to work live in domestic work!

Working live is only really going to be considered when paying out the compensation for killing someone is cheaper than the loss of profit from shutting down production.

Firstly I didn’t say safe isolation would ever be obsolete, I said ensuring it’s 100% guaranteed safe (which isn’t achievable as someone previously stated) becomes obsolete.

If your working on an apartment in an occupied block of flats, are you going to shut the entire building down purely to work on that one flat? I’ve been in this situation and even after knocking on each apartment to ask if shutting down the power is ok, there is still atleast 1 or 2 that you can’t get into. I always use fully insulated tools and would use temporary insulation but I can honestly say I have never found the need to wear fire proof clothing and use arc shields when working in a domestic or commercial environment.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

And also I never said I only do domestic. I said I very rarely do private work as I am not currently able to self certify and personally don’t feel like I should be out there doing my own work unless I can fully test and self certify it afterwards.

 

[davesparks]

Firstly I didn’t say safe isolation would ever be obsolete, I said ensuring it’s 100% guaranteed safe (which isn’t achievable as someone previously stated) becomes obsolete.

If your working on an apartment in an occupied block of flats, are you going to shut the entire building down purely to work on that one flat? I’ve been in this situation and even after knocking on each apartment to ask if shutting down the power is ok, there is still atleast 1 or 2 that you can’t get into. I always use fully insulated tools and would use temporary insulation but I can honestly say I have never found the need to wear fire proof clothing and use arc shields when working in a domestic or commercial environment.

No, but I woukd arrange to isolate the feed to that particular flat if necessary. There will be a means of isolation for the supply to each flat. If work is required to the live side of that means of isolation then you have to contact the BNO to arrange the necessary permissions etc.

 

[davesparks]

I always use fully insulated tools and would use temporary insulation but I can honestly say I have never found the need to wear fire proof clothing and use arc shields when working in a domestic or commercial environment.

Do you not find that it gets expensive using fully insulated tools all of the time, they must get damaged pretty easily in everyday use? We're not talking about your usual 1000V VDE tools which still have a lot of exposed metal but actual fully insulates/all plastic construction.

You aren't risk assessing the job very well if you haven't found the need for arc protection when working live, you don't exactly get a second chance once you've written off your eyes!

 

[Sparksaflyin]

No, but I woukd arrange to isolate the feed to that particular flat if necessary. There will be a means of isolation for the supply to each flat. If work is required to the live side of that means of isolation then you have to contact the BNO to arrange the necessary permissions etc.

I was talking about the sub main feeding all the said apartments. On paper it’s fine stating exactly how things should be done but in reality it doesn’t always work that way. Sometimes the job has to be done and it can’t always be done 100% to the book. I think anyone who says they’ve always 100% done things to the book is a liar, in my opinion.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

As for dealing with the dno. This is absolutely fine if you have an unlimited budget and 6 months to complete every job.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

I understand your point of view and I totally agree things should ALWAYS be done as safely as possible. All I’m saying is sometimes they cannot always be done 100% to the book and from what I’ve heard even the niceic understand this as fact.

 

[Midwest]

I was talking about the sub main feeding all the said apartments. On paper it’s fine stating exactly how things should be done but in reality it doesn’t always work that way. Sometimes the job has to be done and it can’t always be done 100% to the book. I think anyone who says they’ve always 100% done things to the book is a liar, in my opinion.

They turned off the power to my local neighbourhood recently, to do some supply work. Sent round a nice little letter a few weeks before. Can't see its a problem. As davesparks said, you should have very good reasons to work live, otherwise you's be in trouble with HSE, should it all go wrong & you survive.

I've had my hands inside a live DB to do some very minor stuff before now, but no one would come to my aid (not literary) if it went wrong.

 

[Midwest]

I would give it a second check with an alternative test instrument. Even if it’s a volt pen.

I wouldn't rely on one of those, with my health on the line. The only way to know that something is 'off', is when it was 'on' and then you've just turned it 'off'.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

They turned off the power to my local neighbourhood recently, to do some supply work. Sent round a nice little letter a few weeks before. Can't see its a problem. As davesparks said, you should have very good reasons to work live, otherwise you's be in trouble with HSE, should it all go wrong & you survive.

I've had my hands inside a live DB to do some very minor stuff before now, but no one would come to my aid (not literary) if it went wrong.

This is all I’m saying. You’ve had your hands inside a live dB board so therefore you cannot say you’ve always followed the book 100%. The times I have worked live have only been what I would consider minor also and have in my opinion been necessary.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

I wouldn't rely on one of those, with my health on the line. The only way to know that something is 'off', is when it was 'on' and then you've just turned it 'off'.

I would only rely on these as a secondary or even third option. Just to check that my primary testing equiptment was correct. It’s purely a back up option in the case stated by someone previously

 

[Midwest]

You’ve had your hands inside a live dB board so therefore you cannot say you’ve always followed the book 100%.

Its that mindset though; I've done it once or twice, it'll be alright.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

Its that mindset though; I've done it once or twice, it'll be alright.

Totally agree with you and it’s most certainly not something I would make a habit of doing

 

[Sparksaflyin]

As someone said previously we are electricians. Our job involves working with something that can kill you at anytime. If working with that risk factor does not appeal then maybe the electrical industry is not for you. Of course we try to minimise that risk factor to the absolute smallest quantity but there is virtually always a potential risk present.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I don't get this stuff about not trusting a proving unit. If your favourite AVI says the proving unit is live and the supply is dead, and another instrument agrees that the proving unit is live and the supply is dead, then there is a vanishingly small chance that the supply is live. With cross checking both live and dead, each instrument validates the others. If you don't have the proving unit and simply rely on the AVI and MFT agreeing that the supply is dead, the probability that it is live is still pretty small but you have no frame of reference for that.

I have blown instruments up, including my trusty Fluke DMM that stopped measuring things after getting a momentary whiff of 50kV. It looked fine but just displayed zeroes all the time. Had I relied on it I would have been stuffed.

 

[The Ghost]

I think one technique is very helpful in this kind of situation. So cover your eyes with wet toilet tissue sit on the loo put your head between your legs and kiss your sweet --- goodbye...oh hang on that's if the atom bomb is going to drop sorry, as you were.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

You can use your own premises as on eof the sample jobs.
If it is a domestic installer registration then one domestic job is required.
If it is an approved contractor registration then it needs to be 3 sample jobs demonstrating the full spectrum of work you carry out, not just domestic work.

I was encouraged to go down the AC route with NICEIC and was told by the assessor if the focus is on domestic in your business, then you can show just domestic jobs. As always I gather that Certsure can be flexible when a cheque is involved.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Are the nic going to want to see an approved voltage tester and proving unit? Or can I get away with using my fluke t5-1000 and proving it on a known source when doing safe isolation, which I’m assuming you’ll have to show?

Get a proving unit and voltage tester, plenty of good offers out there at the moment.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

Get a proving unit and voltage tester, plenty of good offers out there at the moment.

Does my fluke t5-1000 count as a voltage indicator? I’m aware it indicates when there is a voltage present but it’s not dedicated to just this function. My megger multimeter can also indicate when a voltage is present but i know that niceic don’t recognise this as a reliable source for whatever reason

 

[DPG]

Get an approved voltage tester and proving unit. Why would you not bearing in mind the small cost?

 

[ruston]

Does my fluke t5-1000 count as a voltage indicator? I’m aware it indicates when there is a voltage present but it’s not dedicated to just this function. My megger multimeter can also indicate when a voltage is present but i know that niceic don’t recognise this as a reliable source for whatever reason

Have a look at this mate , it was part of the old 2391 exam too.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/priced/gs38.pdf

 

[Sparksaflyin]

Have a look at this mate , it was part of the old 2391 exam too.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/priced/gs38.pdf

Thanks. I’ll get myself a new voltage detector and proving unit then. What with all the new 18th edition books I’ve bought, the 18th edition course I’ve booked and the niceic subscription and initial assessment costs, this is proving to be a rather costly experience. I hope it’s worth it

 

[Sparksaflyin]

Has anyone got any recommendations on a decent yet not too expensive proving unit and voltage indicator?

 

[ruston]

Thanks. I’ll get myself a new voltage detector and proving unit then. What with all the new 18th edition books I’ve bought, the 18th edition course I’ve booked and the niceic subscription and initial assessment costs, this is proving to be a rather costly experience. I hope it’s worth it

Money spent on safety equipment is never wasted. It could save your or someone's life.
I have the Megger voltage tester in your link . It is a very useful tester. It has phase rotation and correct polarity amongst other features too.

 

[Charlie_]

Something else I bought off the megger man last week

That now takes my total to about 8 different types..

 

[DPG]

Consider Kewtech if you want a lower budget but still reasonable item.

 

[ruston]

Something else I bought off the megger man last week

That now takes my total to about 8 different types..

That's the one I have . I also have a 30+ year old - non singing non dancing Stienel voltage tester.

 

[Charlie_]

I still have my old neon lamp with the probes

 

[Markyd]

proving unit....lock.off kit...torque screwdriver ....

 

[Taylortwocities]

Are the nic going to want to see an approved voltage tester and proving unit? Or can I get away with using my fluke t5-1000 and proving it on a known source when doing safe isolation, which I’m assuming you’ll have to show?

He’ll be looking for a GS38 compliant voltage tester. You can get GS38 probes for the fluke. TS38.
Sold by RS, and others.

 

[Sparksaflyin]

Cheers fellas. I’ll have a look

 

[davesparks]

As for dealing with the dno. This is absolutely fine if you have an unlimited budget and 6 months to complete every job.

I said arrange it with the BNO not the DNO!

 

[davesparks]

I would only rely on these as a secondary or even third option. Just to check that my primary testing equiptment was correct. It’s purely a back up option in the case stated by someone previously

A device used to check that your primary testing equipment is correct should be something more reliable than the primary testing equipment, not something less reliable.

 

[davesparks]

Does my fluke t5-1000 count as a voltage indicator? I’m aware it indicates when there is a voltage present but it’s not dedicated to just this function. My megger multimeter can also indicate when a voltage is present but i know that niceic don’t recognise this as a reliable source for whatever reason

It's not what the niceic recognises that matters, the equipment you use needs to comply with gs38 for the purpose of safe isolation.

Don't forget you'll also need a means of locking off suitable to the type of equipment you work on.

 

[Midwest]

Has anyone got any recommendations on a decent yet not too expensive proving unit and voltage indicator?

Make sure the one you do purchase, is manufacturered to withstand rough service. I bought one of those dilog voltage tester (& proving unit ). It lasted a year, before the lead popped out of the main housing.

Bought a Fluke one, its nice & rebust. Still got the dilog proving unit mind.