Two way switch

[linux44]

Hi all,

I have an electrician helping me with some re wiring.

for two way switch I am proposing we do it as

1.5mm three core to ceiling
1.5mm three corr from ceiling to first switch
1mm 4 core to the second switch so that we have 1x ground , 2 for l1 and l2 and one for comm

His view was 1mm is too thing but again I am expecting a 100 watt lamp to run from it
cable is rated at 12 amp so even a 1k watt won't be more than 5amp.

what is your view on this?


His view is we shouldn't cable it that way and do it as follow
1.5 from ceiling loop to comm on first switch then a twin an earth between switches and then from second switch take the com and put it back in on the other switch on the light so the switchd live all using 1.5mm


I trust him but think first way is less cabling and achives the same.

Please share your view

 

[Octopus]

Selection of cable size depends on the load, the installation methods and the mcb value.
Not sure you are describing a 2 way switch, sounds more like a 2 gang switch.

Who is responsible for the design and sign off?

 

[ImpededLoop]

There's numerous ways to wire two way switches. As long as your friend is fully qualified, I can't see any reason to question his expertise.

Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk

 

[davesparks]

It's not best practice to mix cable sizes in a circuit,
Using 1.5mm for a 6A circuit is just wasteful in my opinion when 1.0mm is normally more than adequate.
We don't have a four core cable for normal domestic installation work and we don't have a ground wire.

Other than that I smell a rat!

 

[linux44]

4 core used for interlinked alarm but then I thought i can get a 4 core 1.5mm

Electriciation is qualified but can't sign off. He is helping me to do it all and then at the end get someone independent to test and certify


Re how I am proposing to do the two way swith see below. It is 1 gang with a wiring for two keys to switch it on and off

 

[andyb]

Electriciation is qualified but can't sign off.

By sign off do you mean certify? or notify?

He is helping me to do it all and then at the end get someone independent to test and certify

Why not just get a qualified electrician in from the start?

 

[Pete999]

Hi all,

I have an electrician helping me with some re wiring.

for two way switch I am proposing we do it as

1.5mm three core to ceiling
1.5mm three corr from ceiling to first switch
1mm 4 core to the second switch so that we have 1x ground , 2 for l1 and l2 and one for comm

His view was 1mm is too thing but again I am expecting a 100 watt lamp to run from it
cable is rated at 12 amp so even a 1k watt won't be more than 5amp.

what is your view on this?


His view is we shouldn't cable it that way and do it as follow
1.5 from ceiling loop to comm on first switch then a twin an earth between switches and then from second switch take the com and put it back in on the other switch on the light so the switchd live all using 1.5mm


I trust him but think first way is less cabling and achives the same.

Please share your view

1.5 twin with cpc from light to one of the 2 way switches, 3 core with cpc from one switch to the other job done Bob;s yer Uncle

 

[Phil Thompson]

Hi all,

I have an electrician helping me with some re wiring.

for two way switch I am proposing we do it as

1.5mm three core to ceiling
1.5mm three corr from ceiling to first switch
1mm 4 core to the second switch so that we have 1x ground , 2 for l1 and l2 and one for comm

His view was 1mm is too thing but again I am expecting a 100 watt lamp to run from it
cable is rated at 12 amp so even a 1k watt won't be more than 5amp.

what is your view on this?


His view is we shouldn't cable it that way and do it as follow
1.5 from ceiling loop to comm on first switch then a twin an earth between switches and then from second switch take the com and put it back in on the other switch on the light so the switchd live all using 1.5mm


I trust him but think first way is less cabling and achives the same.

Please share your view

The way the electrician says is how I'd do it.

1.5mm2 single brown and cpc from light to Sw1, 1.5mm2 Single brown and no cpc from light to Sw2 and 1.5mm2 twin brown and cpc between Sw1 and Sw2.

 

[Midwest]

Agree with davesparks, I think this is the Royal We. Come clean OP, before it turns nasty.

 

[Pete999]

The way the electrician says is how I'd do it.

1.5mm2 single brown and cpc from light to Sw1, 1.5mm2 Single brown and no cpc from light to Sw2 and 1.5mm2 twin brown and cpc between Sw1 and Sw2.

Might find it a bit difficult to find sheathed single core and earth

 

[Octopus]

4 core used for interlinked alarm but then I thought i can get a 4 core 1.5mm

Electriciation is qualified but can't sign off. He is helping me to do it all and then at the end get someone independent to test and certify


Re how I am proposing to do the two way swith see below. It is 1 gang with a wiring for two keys to switch it on and off

Nobody in their right mind, least all a DIYer, would employ 1 spark to assist, and another to test and certify.

Sniff, sniff

 

[Pete999]

Nobody in their right mind, least all a DIYer, would employ 1 spark to assist, and another to test and certify.

Sniff, sniff

Right on Sherlock

 

[linux44]

What is cost of certification?

£300?

 

[hightower]

What is cost of certification?

£300?

Certification should be included in the price of having the install done, and is a requirement of all electrical installs. Notification on the other hand, well, it might be £300 if you use your local building control, it will be a whole lot less if you use a registered spark from the off - most wouldn't charge for notification, or at the most a nominal fee to cover their associated fees.

 

[linux44]

Sorry to be novice, what is notification?

my understanding was my mate does all wiring and then some one will check and signs it off(certify)

is notification to council?

 

[Phil Thompson]

Might find it a bit difficult to find sheathed single core and earth

Why? Is it hard to get over the water? CEF should still stock it I think.

 

[Pete999]

Why? Is it hard to get over the water? CEF should still stock it I think.

It used to be the preferred way to use sheathed single, not seen it used for a long time, the Wholesalers may have some, just saying it could be hard to get hold of in the quantities you seem to require.

 

[Phil Thompson]

It used to be the preferred way to use sheathed single, not seen it used for a long time, the Wholesalers may have some, just saying it could be hard to get hold of in the quantities you seem to require.

Indeed, I had to get a roll of SB&E a few months back, after doing a CU change and had a borrowed live as opposed to neutral to sort out a landing light, not used any of it since right enough lol

 

[Risteard]

The way the electrician says is how I'd do it.

1.5mm2 single brown and cpc from light to Sw1, 1.5mm2 Single brown and no cpc from light to Sw2 and 1.5mm2 twin brown and cpc between Sw1 and Sw2.

That's the way almost everyone would do it here.

The 3-core & Earth "conversion method" - whilst taught here - is rarely employed. It seems to be more of an English thing.

 

[Phil Thompson]

That's the way almost everyone would do it here.

The 3-core & Earth "conversion method" - whilst taught here - is rarely employed. It seems to be more of an English thing.

Yeah, I was taught it at the tech as an apprentice but never used it outside of the classroom.

 

[Risteard]

Yeah, I was taught it at the tech as an apprentice but never used it outside of the classroom.

LOL I had one boss who went through a phase of using it for about a fortnight and then back to the traditional method!

 

[Risteard]

Incidentally, it has uses for converting 1-way switching to 2-way switching (hence the name "conversion method"). It means the original setup doesn't need rewired - just the additional cable installed.

 

[telectrix]

i always use the 3c/e method so the light only needs to cable to the nearest switch. oddest way i ever saw was loop in at light, then a 3c/e from light to each switch, so in the pendant were 2 1.5mm T/E and 2 3 core/E. right bloody squash.

 

[David M]

i always use the 3c/e method so the light only needs to cable to the nearest switch.

Me too, I don't get why (in most cases) anyone wouldn't employ this method. Its often the most simple fuss free method in my opinion. Each to their own I guess

 

[Risteard]

Me too, I don't get why (in most cases) anyone wouldn't employ this method. Its often the most simple fuss free method in my opinion. Each to their own I guess

One advantage with the proper method is that as long as twin brown is used for strappers then everything is correctly identified.

 

[telectrix]

never seen twin brown. years ago we sometimes came across twin red.

 

[Risteard]

never seen twin brown. years ago we sometimes came across twin red.

Every wholesaler has it here in stock. And twin red before that!

 

[Maxi]

Sorry to be novice, what is notification?

my understanding was my mate does all wiring and then some one will check and signs it off(certify)

is notification to council?

If your mate was Part P registered, he would be able to test and certify the installation and then notify building control of the work. This is requirement. If the work is not carried out or tested by a registered person, then you are required to notify building control, who will send out an inspector to test and certify the work, for a fee of around £300. So usually always more economical to get a registered sparky in to do it all.

Yes, by building control, I mean department of local council department.

 

[Phil Thompson]

LOL I had one boss who went through a phase of using it for about a fortnight and then back to the traditional method!

I only saw 3c&e at college until my 3rd year when the boss got it to speed up smokes and boilers lol

the conversion method is a good way to make a 1w into a 2w as you say, but to do it for them all I'm sitting thinking about how many wires would be at a 4g switch with 2x2ways at it lol would it need a double track to pipe them all to the box lol

 

[Risteard]

the conversion method is a good way to make a 1w into a 2w as you say, but to do it for them all I'm sitting thinking about how many wires would be at a 4g switch with 2x2ways at it lol would it need a double track to pipe them all to the box lol

LOL and a box so deep that there is no wall left.

 

[Phil Thompson]

aye, and when I was training we used the 4G clipsal that fits a 1g box lol don't see that happening with conversion method either lmao

 

[Pete999]

I only saw 3c&e at college until my 3rd year when the boss got it to speed up smokes and boilers lol

the conversion method is a good way to make a 1w into a 2w as you say, but to do it for them all I'm sitting thinking about how many wires would be at a 4g switch with 2x2ways at it lol would it need a double track to pipe them all to the box lol

Would that be a 4 gang at 1 position and a 2 gang at the other position?

 

[Phil Thompson]

No just 1x4gang at bottom of stairs, start of hall, front door area, 1g2w at other end of hall and then an intermediate and 1g2w to cover both ends of the landing.

 

[Pete999]

Sorry Phil I'm confused, can you explain exactly what type of switching arrangement you are trying to achieve, the description given is a bit confusing.

 

[hightower]

oddest way i ever saw was loop in at light, then a 3c/e from light to each switch, so in the pendant were 2 1.5mm T/E and 2 3 core/E. right bloody squash.

I've used this method before - it was real handy because we couldn't get a twin and a 3-core down the existing (embedded) capping. 3-core down to each switch and do the terminations in the roof space where there was plenty of room. Granted though, we didn't terminate at the light fitting, it was done with wagos with only a twin dropping in to the light fitting. Horses for courses eh?

 

[HandySparks]

Sorry Phil I'm confused, can you explain exactly what type of switching arrangement you are trying to achieve, the description given is a bit confusing.

You are, indeed, confused. Phil isn't the OP with the problem.

 

[Pete999]

You are, indeed, confused. Phil isn't the OP with the problem.

Listen I just got up, the coffee aint kicked in yet, my meds are causing havoc, give me a break lol

 

[Phil Thompson]

Listen I just got up, the coffee aint kicked in yet, my meds are causing havoc, give me a break lol

I'm sorry im so like you Pete, have a bit of an Amitryptaline hangover this morning, took it too late last night, and coffee not kicked in enough yet lol

 

[Risteard]

Sorry Phil I'm confused, can you explain exactly what type of switching arrangement you are trying to achieve, the description given is a bit confusing.

He's not trying to achieve it. He's simply pointing out that with such a setup the proper method of two-way switching makes far more sense than the conversion method with 400 cable cores at every switch position!

 

[davesparks]

Personally I use both methods of wiring a two way, it just depends on what I judge to be the most efficient way for a particular job.
But then I also prefer the central joint box method of wiring lighting which is terribly old fashioned and out of vogue these days.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk