Very old ring main, sockets with separate switches

[BathSparks]

Hello fellow Sparkys
I started a job to add 4 double sockets to an old, existing ring final circuit. But first I needed to sort out the rest of the sockets in the front of the room. Half of these were not working. The cable is old multi-stranded stuff but appears to be OK. Some of the sockets are singles. Near these, there is a separate switch. When I took the front off, the red and black cores are connected in the top half of a the switch (L1,L2)?. Most of this is completely dead. I cannot see how this would work!. I am intending now to replace this load of old stuff and in fact, re-jig the ring circuit somewhat. I had not budgeted enough time to sort all of this. Plasterers are coming on Weds to plaster out the new extension, so I will have to put those 4 doubles in first and start pulling the rest to bits after. Should I replace all the old cable. With these separate switches, the cable disappears under the floor to some junction box so more floor boards will have to come up to get rid of these.

 

[1shortcircuit]

Should I replace all the old cable.

Sounds like a rewire is in order? Have you tested the existing installation before starting the work?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well an IR test would confirm wether the old cables are past it for a start.....should always do this on a circuit that you intend to alter/add on to.....need to know that its still good for continued service mate and that anything you do/add to it is not to the detrement of the existing install......

 

[mo the test]

You should have carried out a periodic inspection to ascertain the condition of the wiring before starting the work, a little effort in the beginning stops a lot of effort at the end. I personally would replace all the old wiring and remove the junction boxes and bring everything up to 17th edition. Were you intending to continue the ring for the 4 extra sockets or add as a spur, if a spur then you would need to do via a fused spur

 

[GLENNSPARK]

You should have carried out a periodic inspection to ascertain the condition of the wiring before starting the work, a little effort in the beginning stops a lot of effort at the end. I personally would replace all the old wiring and remove the junction boxes and bring everything up to 17th edition. Were you intending to continue the ring for the 4 extra sockets or add as a spur, if a spur then you would need to do via a fused spur

yes and what you often find n all with these old installs is loads of spurs off ov spurs all over the place and joint boxes galore...lol........

 

[sparky3366]

is the cable pvc or trs/vir? if its the latter....oh dear.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

is the cable pvc or trs/vir? if its the latter....oh dear.

not neceserely,....ok no cpc but the popular myth with vir is ALL the insulations shot which is often not the case.....yes it has often perished at the ends but that int nowt some heat shrink wont solve.....until the customer can afford to have it rewired that is......the o/p should be looking at what earthing and bonding arrangements are here first before undertaking any work...as if its substandard it will need upgrading......

 

[BathSparks]

Thanks for your help. The wiring is PVC but still very old. Will be pulling the cables out of the CU and testing from there. I suspect I will be giving the customer some bad news (good news really), they get new double sockets and cable to replace a load of old tut. The existing ring circuit covers 3 small rooms. There is 4 singles (with separate switches) in the front lounge area. One socket in a small cupboard in a side room (can't get to this yet) and two sockets in another small room/study (on these separate switches). I have already removed two junction boxes. I am intending to 'break' the ring and extend it around the new extension, possibly two on the ring and two spurs, one off each socket (to avoid some unnecessary joist notching/drilling). In the old part of the lounge, there is one socket directly under a radiator so I am going to move that further down the wall.

 

[BathSparks]

This job is going in installments for sure. The real fun will start when we are to deal with the many meters/consumer units and 3 Phase just the other side of the wall where the ground floor C.U. is. The place use to be several flats but is now returning to one house so 2 phases will have to be capped. All of this work cannot be done at once so a sensible plan will have to be drawn up. The new socket for the ring will just be first fixed for now (for the plasterers) while I sort out the rest of it.
Many thanks

 

[Knobhead]

The cable may be old, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s knackered. Do the testing and save yourself some work.

 

[D80]

You should have carried out a periodic inspection to ascertain the condition of the wiring before starting the work, a little effort in the beginning stops a lot of effort at the end. I personally would replace all the old wiring and remove the junction boxes and bring everything up to 17th edition. Were you intending to continue the ring for the 4 extra sockets or add as a spur, if a spur then you would need to do via a fused spur

In an ideal world, perhaps. Don't think many can or will get paid to do that though? I know I would get chucked out of the house if I did (and charged for) a PIR for all small jobs like this.

 

[sparky3366]

Personally if I see old trs/vir good or not I will not touch it full stop...I've had a 'Money Pit' moment with that stuff too many times. The only touching I do to that stuff is with snips when taking it out. It is way too fragile after all these years IMHO.