Wago's , junction boxes and choc blocks whats best with downlighters

Mark_Burgess · Mar 17, 2011

fazhols said:
Opening a can of worms here guys. Question is do you want to comply with the regulations? Click 100? Yes, looks good BUT no cable restariant therefore a NO NO! See more details on other boxes on
COMPARISON TABLE
There actually arent many that will comply!!

Whoever compiled that comparison judged by looking at and not actually using the wagobox, I find I need a screwdriver or pliers to prise the lid off a wagobox especially when its loaded, unless I fancy loosing a load of skin off my hands as they are damned hard.

fazhols · Mar 17, 2011

Trouble is that you can remove the cables (live wire?) from the wago connectors without a tool! Safe location is obviously a factor but you choose if you want to argue the case with HSE is someone opens one without a tool and fries!

i=p/u · Mar 17, 2011

well wago say they are 17th compliant

fazhols · Mar 17, 2011

i=p/u said:
well wago say they are 17th compliant

Well I guess they would?! I will gladly retract and apologise if you can point me to the part of the regs that gets them out of jail. Here's my take on the regs:

Read BS 7671 chapter 41: Protection against electric shock:
412.2.2.3 ......,."THis insulating barrier shall be removable only by use of a tool or key"
416.2 Barriers and Enclosures....416.2.4 "Where it is necessary to remove a barrier or open an enclosure ..... this shallbe possible only: i) by the use of a key or a tool."

The only way I can see it complying is: 417.3 Placing out of reach. I know my NICEIC inspector and lecturer for part P had pretty stron views on when this rule can apply. Also, see 417.3 "NOTE: protection by placing out of reach is intended only to prevent unintentional contact with live parts."

ANd 418 = under the controll of skilled personal. So I guess this could be what WAGO mean when they say it complied?

Have I missed anything?

mayfair · Mar 17, 2011

Ive gone mad used over 60 in last three days

fazhols · Jun 1, 2011

Best deal on WAGO currently from www.l-in-e.co.uk
also, please see my post on JB's and regs:
http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...7671-junction-boxes-checklist.html#post298684

PSES · Jun 1, 2011

I got a load of wagos a little while back and was using them on everything.

I have since gone back to crimping most things though or good old screw terminals! I personally like the idea of knowing that when I go off site there is no way its going to come undone. Although having some wagos in the van is a godsend sometimes.....

As for downlights, I use the click conectors whilst 1st fixing and then wire up the downlights to the other side of the connector at home on the sofa watching tele, thats my sort of working conditions!!! Then when you go back to 2nd fix you just have to test and then plug them in.

fazhols · Jun 1, 2011

By click I assume you mean the click 100. Problem with them is that there are no cable restraints so may not comply if just pushed through ceiling. Like your work methods though!

zippy · Sep 15, 2011

Can I revive this thread ...

Fitting 18 fire-rated downlighters to kitchen (cfl lamps). Have 5 rows of lights and got 5 Ashley downlighter junction boxes. Was planning T&E from lightswitch to first Ashley, then looping all 5 Ashleys together with T&E ... then running T&E tails from the Ashleys to each downlight connector block. Max 4 downlights per Ashley.

If all Ashleys are close to a downlight hole with enough slack to pull through the hole is this classed as accessible?

Also, is it OK to run standard 1.5mm T&E to each downlighter or do I need heat resistant cable ... some posters said they use heat resistant flex to the downlighter?

Thanx

malcolmsanford · Sep 17, 2011

Well if your going to use something like the Ashley J501 downlighter Junction box then yes you need to keep these accessible and yes it is deemed accessible to be able to access them through the downlight hole.

If you go with the Ashley J803/4 and you design this install to the BS 7671-2008 1st amendment then as per regulation 526.3 (vi) you can have these classed as an inaccessible joint and not worry about it.

It is OK to terminate T+E into the downlighter, espicially as your using CFL, even though they still produce heat, certainly not as much as halogen lamps.

I have to be honest I would always terminate a downlighter with Heat resistant flex just for safety. You could of course fit some heat proof over sleeving on the T + E if you wish.

I have to admit though there is nothing wrong with having the 5 lights on the one JB, it's going to be a nice tight fit in that single JB, at a minimum 6 cables, and if you a fault on a fitting, and need to remove it to say buy a replacement your going to either have the other 4 lights off, or make that on leg safe, whereas a JB for each light is a lot easier.

pennywise · Sep 17, 2011

I do the same as mal, Ashley 501 on each down light and a bit of heat proof coming off to feed the light, if a 12v tranny straight out of the Ashley. Personal opinion I don't like seeing all the down lights wired back to one JB it looks a bit Heath Robinson though there is nothing wrong with it.

La Poste · Sep 17, 2011

Could anyone recommend a good supplier of heat sleeving?
Thanks.

malcolmsanford · Sep 17, 2011

La Poste said:
Could anyone recommend a good supplier of heat sleeving?
Thanks.

I had a local supplier that got it for me, but RS components do it.

zippy · Sep 19, 2011

malcolmsanford said:
I have to admit though there is nothing wrong with having the 5 lights on the one JB, it's going to be a nice tight fit in that single JB, at a minimum 6 cables, and if you a fault on a fitting, and need to remove it to say buy a replacement your going to either have the other 4 lights off, or make that on leg safe, whereas a JB for each light is a lot easier.

Having just completed the job I have to agree with you ... it would have been better to go with one Ashley per downlighter!

The Ashleys are nicer to use than the old round junction boxes and have the cable clamps ... but 6 cables into one of them and it sure gets crowded in there ... had to connect the earths into a separate single junction (taped up and enclosed inside the Ashley) as there was just not enough room to work.