EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

So you support corruption and false accounting then

Well you've got me there, if I disagree with you I support corruption and false accounting.

So are you saying the past governments should have realised that they needed to prepare for the immigration problem before it happened

You've got that wrong ( there's me supporting corruption and false accounting again) I'm saying it's not the fault of immigration but the fault of government.

With regard to the NHS this country is seen as a soft touch by every man and his dog foreigners are taking medical holidays for free medical care and operations and travel to the UK with no insurance yet we go abroad and travel insurance is a must as you don't get treatment without it

Bearing in mind that this is a debate about the EU, you are wrong again. It costs the NHS less to treat visiting EU nationals visiting this country than it does EU countries treating UK visitors to their countries.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

With regard to the NHS this country is seen as a soft touch by every man and his dog foreigners are taking medical holidays for free medical care and operations and travel to the UK with no insurance yet we go abroad and travel insurance is a must as you don't get treatment without it

That cost the NHS less than 20 million last year, that's hardly the billions some would have use beleive - sorry but you can't blame every man and his dog for this one

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I wonder how many Doctors, Nurses, care workers and other health care professionals came here as immigrants, or are the offspring of immigrants.

I'd wager a lot of money that those figures would look favourably at even more immigration, from both inside and out with the EU - more willing workers is a route towards a growing economy, M's Merkel quickly had that sussed.

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Turkey will never be full members, and I'm glad of that - but Darkwood you are simply regurgitating zenophobic propaganda

The vast majority of Turks don't want to join.


The vast majority of Turks don't trust the EU


There has to be aunanimous vote in favour of new member states joining.


Merkel is anti Turkey joining.


Juncker is anti Turkey joining ..... and there's plenty more in the anti camp


Their economy doesn't come close to compliance with the requirements of AC


Their justice system doesn't come close to compliance with the requirements of AC (and its moving further away)


Their freedom of movement and association laws dont come close to compliance with the requirements of AC


Their anti competition policys doesn't come close to compliance with the requirements of AC


Their compliance with most of the chapters is at best "moderately prepared"


They may well be conviently geographically located for "our" military assests but there is no bigger picture, there is no plan for them in 2020 (prove me wrong please) - Darkwood your rhetoric might convince a few here, but not everyone is so gulable.

If this is all rhetoric for the gullable then explain why the EU is buckling to Turkeys demands, and why this is even been discussed at the EU conferences, why has Visa restrictions been lifted to 78million turks to allow its citizens free movement into the EU (that and the relations we already have is not far off been a member), add the fact that we have just deposited 3 billion euros into Turkey as they demanded it or they wouldn't co-operate with helping with immigration and it sounds like we are already half way there to them been a member, this is rarely a discussion point in UK media but I follow European politics and this is a very big story over there and has been for some time, steps to bring turkey into the EU have been going on for decades but like you say they have a lot of things to do first but here's the problem. I agree that not many want Turkey in the EU but its already happening due to the strong position Turkey holds and its blatant blackmailing of the EU... look it up its not here say and these reports are been written across all the media so its not right or left wing propaganda.

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I wonder how many Doctors, Nurses, care workers and other health care professionals came here as immigrants, or are the offspring of immigrants.

I'd wager a lot of money that those figures would look favourably at even more immigration, from both inside and out with the EU - more willing workers is a route towards a growing economy, M's Merkel quickly had that sussed.

Where my misses works in the NHS they recruited a few from Eastern Europe to fill a skills gap. Their training and more worryingly their competence was woefully short of UK standards - needless to say they have been managed "out" of the hospital.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Where my misses works in the NHS they recruited a few from Eastern Europe to fill a skills gap. Their training and more worryingly their competence was woefully short of UK standards - needless to say they have been managed "out" of the hospital.

My father in law had his knees replaced by a Polish surgeon (reputedly the best the NHS has), who works for the NHS, on the recommendation of his English consultant, apparently our NHS just just doesn't have enough homegrown skills.

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

My father in law had his knees replaced by a Polish surgeon (reputedly the best the NHS has), who works for the NHS, on the recommendation of his English consultant, apparently our NHS just just doesn't have enough homegrown skills.

On this one I have to agree, instead of educating our own, our succesive governments have let our own down leaving a skills gap, but I also see Murdochs point as I see this in our trade a lot.

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

My father in law had his knees replaced by a Polish surgeon (reputedly the best the NHS has), who works for the NHS, on the recommendation of his English consultant, apparently our NHS just just doesn't have enough homegrown skills.

Cuts in "home grown" training from the mid 90's has created this problem.

Couple this with making nursing a "degree" entry job and the problems just mount up.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I agree that not many want Turkey in the EU but its already happening due to the strong position Turkey holds and its blatant blackmailing of the EU... look it up its not here say and these reports are been written across all the media so its not right or left wing propaganda.

There's no stealth mode method by which they can become full members - they won't be joining in 2020, nor is there a plan, just lots of political postulating to apease a currently handly located Country - that's all.

 

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I have to disagree, up to the mid 90's immigration was steady and manageable, then the floodgates were opened indefinately which saw over the next 2 decades a continued rise in immigration which at the present value of over 300 000 net per year is pushes our already buckling services and is openely agreed by both main parties to be too high to keep up with, it wasn't the fact that the infra-structure wasn't been kept up. Where you see area's with little influx against areas with large influx suffering the same it will make you think that immigration isn't the reason, what you need to look at is the migration effect on each of the services, if one town has a 2week waiting with its Doc's surgery and the next town doesn't then by word of mouth you get people migrating to other surgeries thus levelling out the effect across the board - this happens through the system and is a self balancing effect, couple this with local councils diverting funds with the same effect to level the playing field then you get an artificial picture that immigration doesn't contribute as a major factor - the building of the infrastructure is now too slow to keep up with immigration and with a shortage of skills to speed it up the only solution is to bring more immigration in .... it thus becomes the vicious circle we have now found ourselves in...

Both major parties now agree that we need to stem immigration in order for us to catch up, but here lies the problem, we don't have a say on it because Brussels has no interest in helping us out as its beneficial to the EU to see high immigration to UK as this diverts UK money into the EU making it stronger at our cost.

We are in a catch 22 that we cannot get out of without leaving the EU as they will not let us limit immigration, Cameron promised a referendom and if he couldn't get an agreement to limit immigration on the table he would vote to leave... now here's where it all backfired, he didn't expect to win with a Majority, he doesn't want to leave the EU and he hasn't got a deal that we didn't already have before, if we were to ask for a benefits break which is a far stretch from what he promised then all 28 members of the EU has to say yes and we already know of several refusing to entertain the idea... it leaves us one option to start repairing the damage done and that is to take back control of our borders amongst many other lost rights and vote for an exit... the scaremongering is coming from the stay in campaign saying 3million jobs losses etc.. all these numbers are just been plucked out of thin air and its almost impossible to calculate the job gains and losses... yes there will be some backlash from leaving but the possiblities of been independent see the UK with more prospects than staying in - we were one of the strongest nations in the world but over the last 40yrs that has been eroded away as we passed nearly all our important powers to Brussels... we cannot even trade freely with the rest of the world due to EU restrictions... and trade with not change whether we are in the EU or not ... it will continue pretty much the same as they sell more to us than we do them.

A long but good post Darkwood, at least you are putting forward an argument and not just stupid sound bites lifted from the front page of the Mail or Express.
Yes we have had immigration for ever, and it has had to be managed. Today is no different other than the rate of immigration, it has to be managed, not stopped.
This campaign to leave the EU is being driven by immigration and the benefits claimed, but most immigration to this country is from outside the EU so how will leaving change this. Also the clamour to stop in work benefits for 4 years can already be applied to non EU immigrants but not only are they not stopped but you don't see much call for this.
Don't forget that immigrants working here are paying tax and NI, also vat and growing the economy. More people means more infrastructure, this is paid for with the taxes being paid by the people who are being blamed for the problem.

I agree with what you say about Cameron, he did not think he'd win the election and the EU vote was to be a bargaining chip that he intended to use in negotiating with prospective coalition partners.

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I wonder how many Doctors, Nurses, care workers and other health care professionals came here as immigrants, or are the offspring of immigrants.

I'd wager a lot of money that those figures would look favourably at even more immigration, from both inside and out with the EU - more willing workers is a route towards a growing economy, M's Merkel quickly had that sussed.

Yes and I wholely agree but it has to happened in a controlled manner and not open doors policy, I never said I was against immigration just uncontrolled immigration which is why the country is how it is now... we need to stem the flow and let our infrastructure catch up... Merkel though won't allow us to do that.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

It's raining outside, that'll be those sodding immigrants fault.

And its dark, that'll be the EU to blame.


I got stuck in traffic yesterday and missed an appointment - bonus on this one, I can blame the EU and those sodding immigrants.


:rolleyes4:

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

It's raining outside, that'll be those sodding immigrants fault.

And its dark, that'll be the EU to blame.


I got stuck in traffic yesterday and missed an appointment - bonus on this one, I can blame the EU and those sodding immigrants.


:rolleyes4:

don't be a dick

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

They aren't great at tightening wheel nuts either .......

Controlling immigration is touted as being the panacea for all of our ills, there's going to be some ackward silences from those who advocate this nonsense when it's realised it isn't.

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

They aren't great at tightening wheel nuts either .......

Controlling immigration is touted as being the panacea for all of our ills, there's going to be some ackward silences from those who advocate this nonsense when it's realised it isn't.

So allowing the population to increase by 300,000 every year is good then....

If you go back to the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and early 90's the UK welcomed people with open arms. They integrated and most people were happy. More importantly, the HAD to integrate to get on..... but now integrating seems almost last on their lists of priorities..... they want to "build" their lives here as if they are somewhere else....

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

So allowing the population to increase by 300,000 every year is good then.....

Is that any worse than allowing the population of the UK to grow by 800,000 every year, irrespective of our ability to support such a increase ?


At least there's potentially a significant number of those 300,000 that will be immediately supporting themselves, or be highly motivated to do so.

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Its like you said sean earlier, you live in an area where immigration isn't on your doorstep, I just wonder how rosy it would be if youwere affected:-

-when you see your mates replaced on site for cheaper Labour from Europe and out of a job still (how is this benificial to our society when they send the money back home).
-when your mate who teaches junior school see's children coming in where English isn't their first laungage and you have to focus more on those pupils at the expense of your others thus seeing education standards drop for the class as a whole (long term effecting education standards across the board)
- when you get admitted to hospital you get a operation on the wrong eye because the Doctor cannot speak full English or read your report properly (Yes that happened to me).. how many times has this happened across the services, you would be shocked!
- when your police forces has to spend more money on interpreters than funding vital resources
- when gangs of Eastern Europeans roam your street drunk at night, putting the fear into everyone and by day they are funding their livestyle by crime, as if we didn't have our own idiots we attract all the EU ones too..

If your getting my drift by now, no again I'm not scaremongering this happens all over, when it directly effect you then see if you still hold the same thoughts on the matter, I see or know of people directly involved in these services above who are by no mean racist or xenophobic yet they all seem to repeat the same thing... immigration is too high and we cannot cope.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

This is akin to urinating in an ocean in an attempt to raise the water level - pointless.

We disagree Darkwood, the future will prove one of us right.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

IMV - any country that does not manage its population is by default out of control. Governments massively underestimated (for political reasons I guess) the influx from euro land, so they was no real management of infrastructure. You would not run a company like this and expect to have a high customer satisfaction rate, do there is no surprise people are just fed up with it all. I am for OUT on the pure basis, it is totally out of control. Lets get some control back, make the country a fit place to live and maybe when EU sorts its self out and drops the ludicrous notion of Turkey joining , it my be worth looking at it again , hopefully after I am long gone.

 

[Dcf]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

The eu will fall to bits when first big player pulls out.of course the eu will make it as difficult as they possibly can for said big player to do this.
Mass immigration is obviously the hot topic that will sway a decision one way or the other.
here is a a micro take on it from a couple of my jobs today.
changed an oven over for a very nice polish couple In a private let
the woman put the rubbish in bags for me and spoke excellent English as did her man.both work ,I have no problem with them at all.
next one which didn't even happen pans out like this...
syrian refugees living in a private let but rented out through the council via letting agent with a private landlord
i know this as I had put smoke detectors the flat prior to them moving into it in November.
gets a email to look at a storage heater yesterday. I was working nearby today and phoned the council housing woman to see about access.
no one knew where she was or why she wouldn't answer her mobile.great.
now when I do finally get access to this job my bill will be dwarfed by the interpreter and the refugee contact officer who will have to accompany me on this visit ,or two if I can't fix it first time.
you don't have to be Andrew Carnegie to work out its not financially viable.
now multiply this by x and see why the governments of Western Europe are looking at this situation in horror.

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

This is akin to urinating in an ocean in an attempt to raise the water level - pointless.

We disagree Darkwood, the future will prove one of us right.

You ain't seen how much I drink

We are just bouncing off each other so will agree to disagree on the matter and yes time is the only real decider of this debate :smug2:

 

[malcolmsanford]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

The UK has had mass migration from the Romans in AD 47 through to West Indians in the 50s, the country is built on it. My mothers family were French Huguenots from the 18th century. And I expect every migration in it's own way was just as acrimonious.

Andyb is correct with regards to this, our country is struggling not just through migration but through government(s) lack of investment, and that is every government for the last 30 yrs.

We have no industry, we have very little skill sets, unless it is IT or service driven. I left school and had an apprenticeship and million of others like me the same in mining, ship building, steel, car production etc. So unfortunately the following generations who are not service orientated relied on "non" skilled work. With this avenue now being cut off with "non" skilled migration, people become angry and disaffected.

Fear also is another factor. Muslim migration is a real menace. I work in an Islamic country and have on and off for 30 plus years. Islam is different, it is alien to us and unfortunately it is very aggresive in it's doctrine with regards to non muslims. I hate using the word non-believer. There is no shadow of a doubt, the Syrian influx into Europe as been used to bring in terrorists, if you think it hasn't then your living in a dream world. Merkel will loose power because of this and she knows it, it was a huge mistake on her part.

The only country that as really spoke out against it as been the UK and I believe the French and German people wished that they had a leader who also spoke against it.

Tel quoted that in the original 70s referendum nobody he spoke with voted in..........I have to admit I did. But then the EU was the common market, and I agreed with free trade within Europe, I did not agree to a United States of Europe as it as become.

Will I vote out, most likely not to be honest.

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

So you support corruption and false accounting then

If you voted in the UK General Election, yes.

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

YoungScud is alluding to the fact that he actually buys the Daily Mail.

I just can't bring myself to believe that.

Didn't miss the point there then. I knew Americans didn't get irony, but...

 

[UNG]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

If you voted in the UK General Election, yes.

I think you need to look at the thread title before engaging your keyboard and posting a load of dross

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I think you need to look at the thread title before engaging your keyboard and posting a load of dross

I believe that's my call. I've been watching this 'news' for many months now, with growing alarm. Alarm, not because I think immigration is some great threat, because it isn't. No, I'm alarmed at how readily my fellow citizebs are willing to believe whatever the MSM throw at them, not to mention social media, where videos abound of the 'hordes' of foreigners coming off ferries. I saw one last night, posted by someone I thought knew better. It purported to show thousands of Syrian refugees being shepherded by Turkish policemen (interestingly, wearing vests marked 'Polizei'), in some shots, a sea of black faces (Syrians, mind), all done with very short 1-2 second shots, clearly a simple stitch job pulling together any footage which could be made to look like a coherent report on the immigration threat. Meanwhile, we're all fired up about corruption in Europe, while we don't seem to giva a ---- about how corrupt our own society is. So, forgive me if I'm sceptical, but it's born fo a lifetime of being lied to about how good our union is, how we're all better together, and how bad Johnny Foreigner is. So here's what I'd suggest. You leave my opinions to me and concentrate on making a cogent argument for yours.

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I believe that's my call. I've been watching this 'news' for many months now, with growing alarm.

You leave my opinions to me and concentrate on making a cogent argument for yours.

Then stop posting trash in my thread.

 

[UNG]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I believe that's my call. I've been watching this 'news' for many months now, with growing alarm. Alarm, not because I think immigration is some great threat, because it isn't. No, I'm alarmed at how readily my fellow citizebs are willing to believe whatever the MSM throw at them, not to mention social media, where videos abound of the 'hordes' of foreigners coming off ferries. I saw one last night, posted by someone I thought knew better. It purported to show thousands of Syrian refugees being shepherded by Turkish policemen (interestingly, wearing vests marked 'Polizei'), in some shots, a sea of black faces (Syrians, mind), all done with very short 1-2 second shots, clearly a simple stitch job pulling together any footage which could be made to look like a coherent report on the immigration threat. Meanwhile, we're all fired up about corruption in Europe, while we don't seem to giva a ---- about how corrupt our own society is. So, forgive me if I'm sceptical, but it's born fo a lifetime of being lied to about how good our union is, how we're all better together, and how bad Johnny Foreigner is. So here's what I'd suggest. You leave my opinions to me and concentrate on making a cogent argument for yours.

Your opinion and no one else's precludes any debate you have chosen not to or failed in a number of other threads to reply to comments made in reply to your highly opinionated, badly researched and sometimes derogatory posts

Your response above just trots out the same old dross as it appears you are the only one on here that has all the real facts so you must be right

My thoughts are that you are an angry Scots man that didn't get his way in a recent referendum and you are driven by that party north of the border that failed to make a coherent financial argument for independence

Don't bother replying to me you have been added to my ignore list as I have better things to do with my time than continue wasting my life reading your dross

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I believe that's my call. I've been watching this 'news' for many months now, with growing alarm. Alarm, not because I think immigration is some great threat, because it isn't. No, I'm alarmed at how readily my fellow citizebs are willing to believe whatever the MSM throw at them, not to mention social media, where videos abound of the 'hordes' of foreigners coming off ferries. I saw one last night, posted by someone I thought knew better. It purported to show thousands of Syrian refugees being shepherded by Turkish policemen (interestingly, wearing vests marked 'Polizei'), in some shots, a sea of black faces (Syrians, mind), all done with very short 1-2 second shots, clearly a simple stitch job pulling together any footage which could be made to look like a coherent report on the immigration threat. Meanwhile, we're all fired up about corruption in Europe, while we don't seem to giva a ---- about how corrupt our own society is. So, forgive me if I'm sceptical, but it's born fo a lifetime of being lied to about how good our union is, how we're all better together, and how bad Johnny Foreigner is. So here's what I'd suggest. You leave my opinions to me and concentrate on making a cogent argument for yours.

Everyone is prone to this propaganda, don't judge them for sharing such stuff just correct them and explain they are the victim of a fake report, regarding the subject matter, I have followed European politics for several years now, the amount of power over our government and laws that the EU hold is now pretty substantial, yes our own inhouse government need a lot of changes and thats regardless of who is at the helm but the EU itself is an entity to itself and requires pulling apart and rebuilding, it claims to be democratic but its leaders are not elected, it pretends its financially sound but it has self written off billions in accountings it alledgedly cannot find (corruption?)... the true inpact of the recent immigration is been muffled in those countries that are mainly effected with only the biggest stories seeping out even after EU surpressive attempts (the mass sexual assaults and rapings of the new year in Germany are one example and it was hidden for several days before it got out), the fact that those countries who have had a large influx of immigration recently has seen an epidemic in rapes and assaults of resident young females is still under reported - why you ask?... well we have a referendum coming up for IN/OUT and the EU is desperate to not show immigration is effecting them negatively, if you want to get a real scope on the damage of the mass immigration has had recently then look up the problems Germany and Sweden has had recently, some of it is hard reading tbh and its definately not the kind of people I would ever want in the UK.
When a EU member has its own government elections and Brussels doesn't like who has been put in power then the EU demands they devolve the parliment until someone they want is in power (Greece), when a country votes to leave the EU by democracy then the EU ignore the result and forces another referendum until the result is in their favour (Ireland), if you ever thought any of our governments were creating a nanny state then you haven't realised the impact the EU actually has over its members and how it reacts when it doesn't get its way... if we vote out we won't be subject to what happened to Ireland as we are one of the main players here but it shows just how corrupt and power hungry the EU is, it claims it is not creating a 'State' but everything it has done and is still doing all show this to be a lie.

In this country we actually get little in the way of EU news and what is happening as the media don't see it as interesting while we paddle along side them but now we have a referendum around the corner the EU is desperate to paint a rosy picture while the media is finding some shocking things out about how it is run and exactly what impact it has on our day to day lives.. I already know a lot of it and immigration is the least of our problems as a reason to leave, the bigger picture hasn't been portrayed yet.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

........ I already know a lot of it and immigration is the least of our problems as a reason to leave, the bigger picture hasn't been portrayed yet.

If I promise not to put you on my ignore list if I ever run out of ability to defend my point, would you mind painting a picture showing us what we should all be really worried about please ?


What dark secrets have you gleaned during your several years of following EU politics ?

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

My thoughts are that you are an angry Scots man

No irony there then, much less basic assumptions.

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Then stop posting trash in my thread.

Your thread? Interesting way of looking at it, but I suppose it explains a lot.

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Your thread? Interesting way of looking at it, but I suppose it explains a lot.

Well ..... I did start it and it's a poll for the up coming EU referendum. That's all really.

Feel free to start your own thread!

 

[egg67]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Your thread? Interesting way of looking at it, but I suppose it explains a lot.

Murdoch started it so it his thread, everyone else has just contributed to it in some way or another.
As for the eu it is not the same as when joined it has become a power that only has to answer to its self. The people in power are not elected and part of a political has been society
You know the sort of people running it x opposition leaders, X Prime Minister's and MPs that filed to get elected to Houses of Parliament but then went on to become Mep and are getting paid a nice bit of money to do a job that is not a job but costs us lots in the taxes we pay, let's think about it when did we start paying V.A.T

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Back on track.

very interesting that there are no undecided votes as yet!

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

If I promise not to put you on my ignore list if I ever run out of ability to defend my point, would you mind painting a picture showing us what we should all be really worried about please ?


What dark secrets have you gleaned during your several years of following EU politics ?

It would be totally your choice if I end up on your Ignore list although TBH I'm not sure if its possible with a Mod' as we normally post warnings and tidy threads up etc :stooge_curly: (hmmm Ill have to ask the question now its been mentioned)

I listed 3 issues with the EU and how its run in that post alone, these are not in themselves little issues but big ones and very concerning IMHO, if you think that its OK for the Brussels Elite to bully Member countries until they get the correct vote or government in power by using threats of various forms or whether you think its right that we give 17billion to them and when we ask for them to show the accounts they refuse and can't explain missing billions... yet they keep coming back asking for more, when they couldn't legitimately give us reason to pay more based on the GDP figures (how they calculate our contribution) they changed the laws governing what GDP covers so now it takes into account prostitution and drug dealing which the government get zero tax back on yet we now have to pay the EU for this YES... you wouldn't believe this if it weren't actually true, now we have to pay the EU part of our contributions based on an imaginary figure that takes drug dealers and prostitution into account... I'm shocked tbh that child trafficing wasn't included mg_smile:

I respect anybody's view to either leave or stay but as always tends to be the case, the majority voting will actually have little knowledge of the reality of what exactly is our relation with the EU and they will only be making a decision of the back of the media around the time of the referendum which is scary considering this could make a massive difference to the UK.

 

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I respect anybody's view to either leave or stay but as always tends to be the case, the majority voting will actually have little knowledge of the reality of what exactly is our relation with the EU and they will only be making a decision of the back of the media around the time of the referendum which is scary considering this could make a massive difference to the UK.

I agree with that, which is why I think the the out vote will win.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

It would be totally your choice if I end up on your Ignore list although TBH I'm not sure if its possible with a Mod' as we normally post warnings and tidy threads up etc :stooge_curly: (hmmm Ill have to ask the question now its been mentioned)

.

Oh is that it ? - you said that immigration was the least of our worries, all you've come up with is bad accounting practices, that's hardly the root of all evil. You call it bullying, Id call it ensuring members adhere to the rules, if you don't like the rules there's the door - you'll not see many heading for the exit. We are just feigning our concern, we won't leave - if we left it would overnight kill off many businesses. I've had business dealing throughout the EU and much further affield for longer than I'd care to remember and can remember how much faff it was to sell into the EU - these days it's seamless. Leave the EU and you'll send us back into recession, not that we are completely out of the previous one yet.


Oddly, that flexible approach to accounting, which now requires us to include such black market trades as drugs deals and ladies of the night within our GDP helped the head towel folder show a growing economy (up a massive 0.2%) that and the OAPs now being able to buy sports cars with pensions.


You missed my point about re my ignore list, I'm sure someone else won't

 

[YoungScud]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Everyone is prone to this propaganda, don't judge them for sharing such stuff just correct them and explain they are the victim of a fake report, regarding the subject matter, I have followed European politics for several years now, the amount of power over our government and laws that the EU hold is now pretty substantial, yes our own inhouse government need a lot of changes and thats regardless of who is at the helm but the EU itself is an entity to itself and requires pulling apart and rebuilding, it claims to be democratic but its leaders are not elected, it pretends its financially sound but it has self written off billions in accountings it alledgedly cannot find (corruption?)... the true inpact of the recent immigration is been muffled in those countries that are mainly effected with only the biggest stories seeping out even after EU surpressive attempts (the mass sexual assaults and rapings of the new year in Germany are one example and it was hidden for several days before it got out), the fact that those countries who have had a large influx of immigration recently has seen an epidemic in rapes and assaults of resident young females is still under reported - why you ask?... well we have a referendum coming up for IN/OUT and the EU is desperate to not show immigration is effecting them negatively, if you want to get a real scope on the damage of the mass immigration has had recently then look up the problems Germany and Sweden has had recently, some of it is hard reading tbh and its definately not the kind of people I would ever want in the UK.
When a EU member has its own government elections and Brussels doesn't like who has been put in power then the EU demands they devolve the parliment until someone they want is in power (Greece), when a country votes to leave the EU by democracy then the EU ignore the result and forces another referendum until the result is in their favour (Ireland), if you ever thought any of our governments were creating a nanny state then you haven't realised the impact the EU actually has over its members and how it reacts when it doesn't get its way... if we vote out we won't be subject to what happened to Ireland as we are one of the main players here but it shows just how corrupt and power hungry the EU is, it claims it is not creating a 'State' but everything it has done and is still doing all show this to be a lie.

In this country we actually get little in the way of EU news and what is happening as the media don't see it as interesting while we paddle along side them but now we have a referendum around the corner the EU is desperate to paint a rosy picture while the media is finding some shocking things out about how it is run and exactly what impact it has on our day to day lives.. I already know a lot of it and immigration is the least of our problems as a reason to leave, the bigger picture hasn't been portrayed yet.

That's just not true. First of all, Ireland never voted to leave the EU, it voted to reject the Lisbon Treaty. The Irsish governmet went to the EU with its concerns, renegotiated terms and the Irispeople then accepted them. That's not bullying, not by any means.

 

[ian.settle1]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

That's just not true. First of all, Ireland never voted to leave the EU, it voted to reject the Lisbon Treaty. The Irsish governmet went to the EU with its concerns, renegotiated terms and the Irispeople then accepted them. That's not bullying, not by any means.

Who are they aliens from outer space?

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

That's just not true. First of all, Ireland never voted to leave the EU, it voted to reject the Lisbon Treaty. The Irsish governmet went to the EU with its concerns, renegotiated terms and the Irispeople then accepted them. That's not bullying, not by any means.

Your correct, I meant to put Euro not EU, had the vote been recognised as Ireland on its own then it would have seen them in a forced exit from the Euro, because Ireland was the only country to hold a referendum on the new treaty when they voted No it put the whole Lisbon Treaty on hold and the only way it could come into play was Ireland to leave the EU or for another referendum, Ireland were not offered anything really just comforting words, the treaty wasn't changed but a massive EU driven Yes campaign was devised on how things had been changed and revised when in fact nothing had, I think they were given a position in the new central powerhouse which equates to nothing if you voice is never heard. I call been given the option to leave or accept a bullying tactic and what exactly is the Lisbon treaty, it centralises the EU power house and takes control of alot of its members affairs so it can imply rules and laws without any obstacles that had previously proved to be a big problem for turning the EU into a state, we were promised a referendum ourselves but they changed the name and Gorden Brown robbed us of our vote which was against EU legislation although who are they to point this out at the risk of the Lisbon Treaty been scrapped.

 

[egg67]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Sorry hit wrong button, just think about what EU started out as it was supposed to be a free market between all European countries but what happened they change their name like a powerful they decided that they were in charge I decided that we would have one coin coin to buy have goats they decided that they could override our own government with decisions that they make they decided that it was okay from my five-year-old son who is six on Saturday this is the comment like to makepoo on the loo

 

[diditrain]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

The people wanting us to stay in will be protected from the bad points that will inevitably come with it. They will not have to live next door or mingle with all those who will come to our shores. Germany is now flooded with rapists, sex pests and the worst is probably yet to come.
Do you want the same?

 

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

The people wanting us to stay in will be protected from the bad points that will inevitably come with it. They will not have to live next door or mingle with all those who will come to our shores. Germany is now flooded with rapists, sex pests and the worst is probably yet to come.
Do you want the same?

A very well thought out insightful argument for leaving the EU.
You've just about won me over with that post.
Well done.

 

[newtothis]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[FONT=&amp]Don't forget, the reason dopey Dave was forced to offer us this choice; was to stop half his gasping, self-serving mob defecting to UKIP
before the last election.
That's just my opinion. it could be true though. [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]We will be subjected to all the scare tactics, and propaganda under the sun. To stay in this failing, corrupt union.
I have faith that the Great British public will 'see through it', and vote NO[/FONT]

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I don't think its going to be such a smooth run for the brexit crew, the BBC is supplimented by the EU so is the CBI and they advise UK business now with the BBC doing a lot of the coverage lets see just how balanced it really is, so far It has already been biased to showing more news on the In campaign and thats before its even started once an agreement is supposedly done, watch out for who exactly you see promoting the stay in campaign and you can bet a lot of what you see will have vested interest in keeping us in as they are receiving 'lets call them perks' from the Brussels corrupt power house.... its strange how the EU chooses to suppliment groups and business that could influence the public mind.

We pay them to pay companies to tell us they are nice and its good to be part of a failing non democratic, power hungry union, it just a good job not all our media is getting EU suppliments, what is worse and scary is the fact the EU sent out pamphlets discussing putting positive EU discussions in the classroom and having it as part of the national curriculum but as this isn't a balanced open lesson it is what I would class as Brain Washing the next generation, the scary part is that it has already found its way into the classroom even today.

Yes its clear I'm against been part of the EU and I don't deny that but I'm hoping that some on the fence will see a documentary that is been made about the truth of the EU which doesn't just talk the talk but shows the evidence of why the EU is failing and the news stories that are not getting to our shores for fear of it influencing our position.

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I don't think its going to be such a smooth run for the brexit crew, the BBC is supplimented by the EU so is the CBI and they advise UK business now with the BBC doing a lot of the coverage lets see just how balanced it really is, so far It has already been biased to showing more news on the In campaign and thats before its even started once an agreement is supposedly done, watch out for who exactly you see promoting the stay in campaign and you can bet a lot of what you see will have vested interest in keeping us in as they are receiving 'lets call them perks' from the Brussels corrupt power house.... its strange how the EU chooses to suppliment groups and business that could influence the public mind.

Hum..... the BBC being balanced - hardly. They don't know what that means these days.

A go back a decade or more, the BBC reported the news as facts, now they report what they want us to think. The BBC is nothing more than a tabloid TV channel

 

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I don't think its going to be such a smooth run for the brexit crew, the BBC is supplimented by the EU so is the CBI and they advise UK business now with the BBC doing a lot of the coverage lets see just how balanced it really is, so far It has already been biased to showing more news on the In campaign and thats before its even started once an agreement is supposedly done, watch out for who exactly you see promoting the stay in campaign and you can bet a lot of what you see will have vested interest in keeping us in as they are receiving 'lets call them perks' from the Brussels corrupt power house.... its strange how the EU chooses to suppliment groups and business that could influence the public mind.

We pay them to pay companies to tell us they are nice and its good to be part of a failing non democratic, power hungry union, it just a good job not all our media is getting EU suppliments, what is worse and scary is the fact the EU sent out pamphlets discussing putting positive EU discussions in the classroom and having it as part of the national curriculum but as this isn't a balanced open lesson it is what I would class as Brain Washing the next generation, the scary part is that it has already found its way into the classroom even today.

Yes its clear I'm against been part of the EU and I don't deny that but I'm hoping that some on the fence will see a documentary that is been made about the truth of the EU which doesn't just talk the talk but shows the evidence of why the EU is failing and the news stories that are not getting to our shores for fear of it influencing our position.

How is the BBC and CBI 'supplemented' by the EU?
I think you'll find the BBC coverage balanced, it certainly has been up to now.

Any chance of a link to this documentary you mention, I like to see all views.

I think you'll find that to have any pro political viewpoint in the national curriculum is illegal,

In all truth the only biased reporting I see in the media is with some newspapers. That's the Mail, Express, Sun and the Telegraph. The Express is rabid, not seen it today but I'd bet blind that there will be anti EU scare stories if not on the front page then in the next few.

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

How is the BBC and CBI 'supplemented' by the EU?


I think you'll find the BBC coverage balanced, it certainly has been up to now.

Any chance of a link to this documentary you mention, I like to see all views.

I think you'll find that to have any pro political viewpoint in the national curriculum is illegal,

In all truth the only biased reporting I see in the media is with some newspapers. That's the Mail, Express, Sun and the Telegraph. The Express is rabid, not seen it today but I'd bet blind that there will be anti EU scare stories if not on the front page then in the next few.

The BBC receive funding from the EU

are you serious?

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

The millions in EU funding the BBC tried to hide | Coffee House

Now tell me they are playing with a balanced deck