Wow, just goes to show how far off I was. Thanks to all your useful posts guys, much appreciated. I have a rough idea as to what I will do. I didn't feel before that i needed a designer, I can do all calculations for cable sizes,diversity etc myself. But thinking about the scale of the job at hand I understand why its necessary to use a designer.
I didn't want to charge too much as we are in the middle of a recession and no one has any money, thats why I thought what we could charge before we cant any more.
I have taken all on board and am really happy to have you guys to ask for help when there is no one else to turn to.
Thanks a lot guys.
Your feedback is good for all of us too, fella. And refreshing - so many times, someone asks for advice, it gets given, and then just silence.
Most times, most of us can get away without the "design" element - which is to say, we roll it into the job as part of the price, write the spec, then go knock the job out.
Then we hit a job that looks like it's all the paydays we've ever had rolled into one, and the gut instinct is to win that job, no matter what - effectively, to go out and impress. We can handle it, we can take anything on. Those are the jobs that end up doing us.
In this particular case, though, it's a perfect example of where taking the approach of bringing the right guys in and realising your own limitations is what really makes the job. I think it feels like a dent in our pride and skill sometimes when someone turns round and says "Use a designer" - because it sounds like a challenge to our own expertise. It isn't though, and the smart money knows that.
What you're doing is buying in an insurance, firstly - you've got somewhere to go if it all goes pear shaped. Secondly, you're taking away the headache of this guy changing his mind half way through the lighting design - and you suddenly realise that what you've done so far isn't going to work on 1mm T&E and that you now need to rip it all out and start again with 2.5 CSA, for example. Thirdly, you're buying in the confidence to get on site and get the job done without worrying about doing calcs on the fly, wondering if you'll actually have capacity at the DB, because you've added an extra ring final along the way, or had a change of lighting scheme.
You're also removing headaches of so many other things, and ultimately, for a fixed price, you get a design that's calculated to work, removes all the guess work, is certificated on someone else's buck, and that you can walk away from, knowing you've installed to the Standard, and hence have a safe job that works.
Professional design also gives you another set of eyes on the job - it highlights things we all miss of our quotes - maybe only a few Henley blocks, or a reel or two of cable, but the real key here is that you can go to your customer and tell him up front - he's spending say £10k on materials, and know that you're not going back to him in a month saying you need to spend another 4k on more "bits". You look better as a result. You look like you're in charge, and know what you're doing, because you do.
By doing this, you can also accurately define your time scales too - because you know the total extent of what you've got to do. Again, guess work removed. The only challenge now is making sure your runs are as you thought they might be.
Where your ability to do the calculations comes in is when the customer asks for extras (as they almost always do) - you'll KNOW what you've got spare, where you can add those extras in and what the pitfalls are - because you know exactly what you started with.
Other than that, the thing that gets highlighted in a job like this is contractual.
You're now in a position to say this is the job I'm doing, with these materials, and it will take this amount of time.
From that you have a far better chance of covering your rear, and putting in terms that work to your advantage - like staged payments, like extra time for delays, like remembering not to guarantee parts you haven't supplied, and like knowing the limitations of the original job, and hence what is extra and chargeable.
This way, no matter how long the job, you'll come out of it profitable, and covered - you're not thinking it'll only take a couple of weeks, and the guy will hand over £10k or whatever no problem at the end - you're covering him and you as you go.
I say well done you - Mad Spark - and ask away - pretty well everyone here is happy to help if they can.
. Again there are so many variables to consider as everyone has mentioned, do they expect you to to do any structured cabling data, HI fi, Burglar alarms home automation wiring. The chases are they in solid engineering brick etc is there a suspended floor/basement. The amount of time you'll be advising the client and being at their beck and call for the duration of the job, waiting times for decisions to be made on positions and finish, There is so much out of hours work to consider. The client getting the parts issue is a nightmare if you ask me but then you probably don't have a choice. Can garrentee you'll be going back and forth to the job more times than you could ever imagine
