K
Knobhead
What do you do when you get to the point where a pre-formed bend won’t do?
- Thread starter zsoltimatrix
- Start date
E
Engineer54
Which i would guess is, the majority of the time!!!! Never heard anything so ridiculous that Plastic pipe isn't supposed to be bent!!! Can you imagine what a surface installation would look like without purpose dogleg bending into Boards.Panels, boxes etc. Or 4 inspection bends around/over every beam and the like??
Your Electricians, NOT cowboys!!!!
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Knobhead
I’m beginning to wonder.
Plastic conduit, push on fittings, preformed bends. They’ll be running water through them next!
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hillbillie
I wasn't aware conduit bending skills were how electricians were judged. I must be a cowboy then.
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Engineer54
Tony,
Yep!!! ..And then they moan and complain about not being treated as ''Skilled'' tradesmen!!!
Yep!!! ..And then they moan and complain about not being treated as ''Skilled'' tradesmen!!!
some of us are trying to keep the craft element in our tradealive, but half the time im told to just throw it in. i wait, and then do it my way anyway.
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Engineer54
It's just another area where standards are being watered down!! Add conduit to all the other areas, and it's becoming clear there on a very slippery slope!!!!
conduit bending is in itself an art form ( to do it right , that is). my skills in that field are just about adequate, because i'm not doing it on a regular basis. it's just a part of the whole, an electrician should be able to cope with all aspects, but, as in everything, different guys have varied skills. a good conduit bender may know jack-all about 3 phase motors, but that may be because he has no need for that knowledge in his chosen field.
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Engineer54
I agree with most of what you have posted above, and it's always been that way, where every electrician will have varied levels of skill in the different aspects of our industry.
Now in my time, (and i'm sorry but that is really the only level to which i can base things on) when you came out of your time from being an apprentice, you were capable of undertaking any general field of installation work. You would certainly know about 3ph installations and motors, and there control. These days it seems, anything past domestic and it's classed as specialist!!!! There's nothing specialist about general 3ph, or motor control...
I agree, if not working within a particular area for some time you will get a little rusty so-to-speak, but not to the point where you would have forgotten good working practices. In this case conduit installations, be they metal or plastic.
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Engineer54
It soon comes back to you too though doesn't it!!! You never totally forget how to bend a bit of pipe so that it will fit and look the business!! lol!!!
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Engineer54
As for these so called new conduit systems, that are not really new at all, we had them for years, only difference was, that they weren't seamless but still had the slip screw system. Eventually they were banned for use in general building wiring....
I have on a few occasions over the last few years been approached by project contractors with samples of these new push-fit and slip-screw connected conduit systems. On each occasion they were rejected, you cannot achieve a solid connection between 2 pieces of pipe, they always had a degree of wobble. (for want of a better word) Where there is a wobble there is a weakness in both continuity and overall strength and longevity. I have allowed the use of push-fit to screwed conduit couplings, as sometimes occasions arise where such a coupling can be very useful, one of which has been noted in this thread, ...ie connecting to a cut conduit flush to a wall!!!
Frankly i am at a loss, as to how they gained BS approval, but i can also see these systems becoming the norm too, ...Why, ...because the skill level to install such a system is going to be much lower than that required to install a screwed conduit system, ....and the fact that no-ones too bothered about longativity anymore, in this throw away new world order!! ...lol!!!
I have on a few occasions over the last few years been approached by project contractors with samples of these new push-fit and slip-screw connected conduit systems. On each occasion they were rejected, you cannot achieve a solid connection between 2 pieces of pipe, they always had a degree of wobble. (for want of a better word) Where there is a wobble there is a weakness in both continuity and overall strength and longevity. I have allowed the use of push-fit to screwed conduit couplings, as sometimes occasions arise where such a coupling can be very useful, one of which has been noted in this thread, ...ie connecting to a cut conduit flush to a wall!!!
Frankly i am at a loss, as to how they gained BS approval, but i can also see these systems becoming the norm too, ...Why, ...because the skill level to install such a system is going to be much lower than that required to install a screwed conduit system, ....and the fact that no-ones too bothered about longativity anymore, in this throw away new world order!! ...lol!!!
K
Knobhead
it's has to look good, does it not make you feel proud when you see the final look of an install? Some people don't have pride in their work and I think that comes from those who haven't been taught to have this attitude of good work. I hate it when people say, "well you won't be able to see it above the ceiling or can't see it from my house!" if you work for a decent company they would make you rip it out and start over again!
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Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
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Andyrc
Condoit? I thought it was CONDUIT, I've just had approx 3 months of steel 20/25mm ,but mainly 25mm, And yes when done right it looks great! BUT it's amazing how MANY Cant install Conduit, Or even understand about "back of the bend " measurments, or where to start the bend etc, I trained with a guy who would use a bit of 4"x 2" with a hole cut in the middle of it to form bends, Double sets etc , Now I know there are not many out there now-a-days who have ever come across this? You would have to be well over 35 + to have may be come across this,
K
Knobhead
The one I was most proud of I knew from the outset would never be seen. A restaurant and kitchen built in the middle of a chemical processing plant. All done in black japanned conduit. No CPC was used in any run, continuity was reliant on the conduit. The reason it would never be seen, every wall had mosaics of local scenes, the kitchen was again fully tiled. No chance of going back to alter something afterwards. Even the piped music system had to go through conduit. Planning the runs to ensure no crosses anywhere was a pain. But at the end of it I was chuffed to bits, plus I got free breakfasts for months after the opening.
All conduit runs were tested with a “Ductor” for M&Q earthing compliance.
All conduit runs were tested with a “Ductor” for M&Q earthing compliance.
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Engineer54
I bet not many here have ever seen a Ductor tester, let alone ever used one!!! It's a test kit that is used to confirm conduit continuity with an ohmic value. If it doesn't pass the test, then a separate cpc is required to be pulled into the conduit runs. I think those that i have used, pass a 25A test current....
not to mention a leg operation if you keep on bending conduit with your knees, anybody who says that it is supposed to be bent with a spring and your knee here is probably a tite ars company owner who wants to get the workers (read labourers or apprentices) to bend it all day to save buying preformed joining bits, and would refuse to do it themselves....oooh oooh my knee hurts...drops conduit after splitting it trying to bend it....
If it was supposed to be bent then they would be trying to sell us proper tools for bending it, as far as I am concerned it is designed to be cut into lengths and joined/diverted using glued on pre-formed connectors/angles/bends...you dont see plumbers bending PVC pipe do you? but you do see them bending copper.....its a similar material comparison...
Ask a doctor the next time you see one about if it is ok to bend conduit with your knee on a regular basis and see what the response is......in fact a lot of sparks are married to nurses, ask them as well...
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hillbillie
You're probably going to get a few replies from other members keen to keep the ancient art of conduit bending alive. I am surprised by how strongly some people's opinions are on others using pre-formed bends and elbows.
I am quite sure you are right about the health side but for me it comes down to cost. I am self employed and for the last job I did my remit was quite simple: get it all working safely as cheaply as possible, which I did. No doubt plenty wouldn't approve of all the pre-formed bends I used but the customer is happy and he was the one paying. I think it looks fine though the customer couldn't care less what it looks like. More importantly the lights work and the Zs readings are all well within the limits needed for the breakers I used.
I, like everyone likes to step back and admire my work (unless I'm up a ladder) but I'm more concerned with paying the mortgage and that means following the customers instructions. If I was a salaried employee no doubt things would be different, I imagine most of those here that consider me a cowboy are salaried employees.
I am quite sure you are right about the health side but for me it comes down to cost. I am self employed and for the last job I did my remit was quite simple: get it all working safely as cheaply as possible, which I did. No doubt plenty wouldn't approve of all the pre-formed bends I used but the customer is happy and he was the one paying. I think it looks fine though the customer couldn't care less what it looks like. More importantly the lights work and the Zs readings are all well within the limits needed for the breakers I used.
I, like everyone likes to step back and admire my work (unless I'm up a ladder) but I'm more concerned with paying the mortgage and that means following the customers instructions. If I was a salaried employee no doubt things would be different, I imagine most of those here that consider me a cowboy are salaried employees.
As one of the 35+ group I was actually taught at college to do this before they let you loose with a bending machine. Still use the technique occasionally when I haven't got a bender to hand
I don't have a problem with the preformed bends etc and they have always been available for as long as I can remember but I have yet to find preformed sets on any wholesalers shelf so the art of conduit bending whilst being ancient is still alive and kicking in my book.
Maybe a module in conduit bending could be added to the already lacking training schemes that exist now and a McDonalds badge scheme could be introduced so as you are trained in the additional modules the basic training misses you gain an extra star
As said previously there is something about standing back and looking at the finished job when it's planned and done right be it conduit or pyro
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Engineer54
What a load of old Tosh!!! ...So because you have hurt your leg, maybe from bending plastic conduit or not, .... Plastic conduit isn't supposed to be bent?? ...I've heard it all now!!!
It's been professionally bent by skilled electricians ever since it was introduced on the market. There are proper tools for bending the thicker walled plastic conduits. Either thick or thin walled, nothing stopping you using heat to make the bend. There are also, made for purpose heat guns that don't burn the conduit.
As for only using preformed angles and bends, what are you talking about here, those short inspection bends and short inspection T's ?? Now there use is really good practice isn't it?? The more connections you have in a run of pipe the harder it is to pull-in solid core cables, they tend to not to like sharp turns and get caught up on those connections that protrude into the bore of the pipe!!! I'd really like to know, how you would connect your Plastic pipe to CUs, surface switch and socket boxes and the like, ...without putting a double set in the pipe?? Or do you just bring it straight off the wall at an angle into those boxes etc?? Marvellous, very professional looking job!!!!
Not really interested in what plumbers do or don't do with plastic piping, but unlike you, i've seen plenty of plumbers/fitters/HVAC installers bending plastic pipe. Perhaps your talking about house bashing plumbers who wouldn't know any different!!!
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pmcl777
conduit not condoit
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thekingiam
i love conduit in all forms as its an art to get it correct first time, i use my knee for plastic as i believe electricians using pre-determined bends not good practise and doing a dis service to his customer in costs and apearance,if you don't want to use your knee use the back of your neck or if you want to look an idiot try a bending vice.
K
Knobhead
To be honest it all comes down to skill and pride. Sadly lacking now.
Problem sorted
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Andyrc
Your joking! a Streel conduit bender for PVC, ????? Also look at thre T & E in the Background, Cant anyone (or teach ) clip straight? AND it should be in Containment/Protected as less then 2 metres of the ground, 17TH (RCD's) or Not!!!!!1
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R1CH-G
Absolutely chuffin' love working with steel conduit. Shame all the time and effort spent to make it look the dogs dooh-dahs is normally hidden above a suspended ceiling. I'm one of those saddos who will notice conduit in the supermarket car parks and make helpful (obviously) comments 
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millwall ken
REMS Amigo??? What the hell happened to a set of Stocks and Dies, and elbow grease?
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millwall ken
Absolutely chuffin' love working with steel conduit. Shame all the time and effort spent to make it look the dogs dooh-dahs is normally hidden above a suspended ceiling. I'm one of those saddos who will notice conduit in the supermarket car parks and make helpful (obviously) comments
Me tooooooo....... The Missus walked out on me in a pub because I wouldn't shut up - in her opinion, about how crap the tray and conduit was in this particular pub that we was in. In my defence though, it was pony.
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Guest123
I already mentioned them.
An entire new school and rediculous timescales and you'd soon be crying out for an electric threader.
An entire new school and rediculous timescales and you'd soon be crying out for an electric threader.
REMs are the dogs.
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Sintra
Just another reason i'm not allowed to go shopping with the mrs, all she does is complain that i am looking up in the air the whole time and walking into people all for the love of conduit.
By looks of that photo mate it looks to me that it's some sort of apprentices practical college exam hence where its in a wooden booth!
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millwall ken
Do you know what mate, its a bloody obsession of mine... Now as some posters will know, I'm not even classed as a sparkie by the chicken JIBlets, BUT I can certainly chuck in tray/trunking/conduit with the best of 'em. Honestly mate, my missus now knows to avoid going to any public place with me where metal containment may be on show!!! I can't help myself, I just have to look; I must look like a bloody care in the community on a day out some times.
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Sintra
I know how it feels mate, i must look like a right case but i can't help it.
I must admit though by gazing upwards i have seen many different types of support systems etc, that i haven't known were on the market which has helped me out big style.
Correct, 2330 second year the shirt on the left of the pic was the tutor asking what the hell the PVC was doing in the bender! How to fail your practical assessment in one easy blow
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Knobhead
I’ve never been allowed to use plastic, M&Q and Foundry Regs. But to be honest what’s wrong with using a bender if it’s available?
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pennywise
I've threaded PVC conduit before it looks far better than adaptors and bushes, only done it the once as a bit of a muck around but the results where quite good
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