0.5mm T&E cable now available.

[pc1966]

Certainly seen 1mm T&E in 80s installation.

 

[7029 dave]

Certainly seen 1mm T&E in 80s installation.

When moved into a new council house in 1977 that was wired in T&E , wylex metal clad 8way with BS3871 mcb's.

 

[marconi]

I think 0.5mm2 t &e should be marked up along its sheath ( in a noticeable way so amateurs ought to see it) with the maximum circuit breaker size as E2.

 

[loz2754]

Theoretically the 5A plug/socket is not protected using a 6A MCB

The MCB is not there to protect the plug or the socket.

 

[Cagethethird]

Problem with 0.5mm T+E, if the apprentice misses with their hammer when clipping it they would go straight through the cable.
At least I know one that would.

 

[John-SJW]

The MCB is not there to protect the plug or the socket.

It can be for sure. An added safety level.
Have a 3A mcb and a few 5A round pin lighting sockets and plugs, supplying table lamps with 0.5mm flex plugged into the 5A sockets, then the 3A mcb covers it all.

 

[DPG]

It can be for sure. An added safety level.
Have a 3A mcb and a few 5A round pin lighting sockets and plugs, supplying table lamps with 0.5mm flex plugged into the 5A sockets, then the 3A mcb covers it all.

The same thing (ie lighting connected to 5A sockets) is commonly done already with 1mm cable and 6A MCBs. The 0.5mm flex offers minimal advantage and possible disadvantages as discussed.

 

[John-SJW]

Certainly seen 1mm T&E in 80s installation.

I had neevr seen it installed or for open over the counter sale until around 10 years ago. That does not mean it was not there.

 

[DPG]

I had neevr seen it installed or for open over the counter sale until around 10 years ago. That does not mean it was not there.

It was certainly there.

 

[John-SJW]

Rule of thumb means absolutely nothing as there are many thumbs with alleged rules hanging from them.

When it came to lighting in domestic houses rule of thumb was paramount - 1.5mm was used with few even thinking of using anything else.

 

[brianmoooore]

I had neevr seen it installed or for open over the counter sale until around 10 years ago. That does not mean it was not there.

I've been using 1.0mm2 T&E for domestic lighting circuits since metrication, and have never come across 1.5 installed by anyone else in 'normal' houses. The only time I've used 1.5mm2 is in very large houses where VD, etc., come into consideration.
Local wholesalers have always had pallets of 1.0mm2 T&E on the floor, but only a few reels of 1.5 on the shelf.

 

[westward10]

When it came to lighting in domestic houses rule of thumb was paramount - 1.5mm was used with few even thinking of using anything else.

Rule of thumb is not a correct method for circuit design what is 'paramount' is correct circuit design based on many factors.

 

[7029 dave]

I've been using 1.0mm2 T&E for domestic lighting circuits since metrication, and have never come across 1.5 installed by anyone else in 'normal' houses. The only time I've used 1.5mm2 is in very large houses where VD, etc., come into consideration.
Local wholesalers have always had pallets of 1.0mm2 T&E on the floor, but only a few reels of 1.5 on the shelf.

I was using 1mm T&E in 1979

 

[brianmoooore]

Metrication was an amendment to the 1966 14th edition, issued in 1970, so I presume I've been using 1.0mm2 since around then.

 

[7029 dave]

Metrication was an amendment to the 1966 14th edition, issued in 1970, so I presume I've been using 1.0mm2 since around then.

Older than me Brian lol

 

[brianmoooore]

Just looked at the inspection certificate in the 14th. Two A5 pages, and half of one of those is space for the inspectors name and address.
Those were the days!

 

[John-SJW]

Rule of thumb is not a correct method for circuit design what is 'paramount' is correct circuit design based on many factors.

You are giving an opinion. The fact is that rule of thumb was the normal for domestic lighting cable sizing in using 1.5mm. Few ventured away from that size.

Most of the time lighting cable was vastly oversized.

 

[DPG]

You are giving an opinion. The fact is that rule of thumb was the normal for domestic lighting cable sizing in using 1.5mm. Few ventured away from that size.

Most of the time lighting cable was vastly oversized.

I would say that you are giving an opinion also. Unless you have facts and statistics from across the UK with which to back it up.

 

[westward10]

You are giving an opinion. The fact is that rule of thumb was the normal for domestic lighting cable sizing in using 1.5mm. Few ventured away from that size.

Most of the time lighting cable was vastly oversized.

It is an opinion based on fact whilst rule of thumb is based on what exactly. Using 1.5 for domestic lighting circuits is not the norm as I have already stated 1.0 has been in use for at least fifty years. What are you basing your 'opinion' on.

 

[John-SJW]

I've been using 1.0mm2 T&E for domestic lighting circuits since metrication, and have never come across 1.5 installed by anyone else in 'normal' houses. The only time I've used 1.5mm2 is in very large houses where VD, etc., come into consideration.
Local wholesalers have always had pallets of 1.0mm2 T&E on the floor, but only a few reels of 1.5 on the shelf.

I moved into a new developer house in 2001 - I am not there now. All houses were wired in 1.5mm lighting. Until LEDs became the norm, I have never come across any new build or rewire using 1.00mm lighting cable. Not one. I am not making this up. Your experience is 100% the opposite of mine.

 

[westward10]

I moved into a new developer house in 2001 - I am not there now. All houses were wired in 1.5mm lighting. Until LEDs became the norm, I have never come across any new build or rewire using 1.00mm lighting cable. Not one. I am not making this up. Your experience is 100% the opposite of mine.

My house was built in 1971 my mother's in 1972 both have 1.0 lighting circuits. I have worked on multiple houses some are 1.0 some 1.5 none of this means too much.

 

[John-SJW]

I would say that you are giving an opinion also. Unless you have facts and statistics from across the UK with which to back it up.

I am not giving an opinion. A factual observation over decades tells me they went by rule of thumb in that they only used 1.5mm for lighting. In domestic houses few went by anything else except rule of thumb. Rule of thumbers generally oversize cables.

Talking about this to a Spark a year or so back. He said they last time he calculated anything was when running swa to the bottom of a garden to get the voltage drop.

 

[John-SJW]

My house was built in 1971 my mother's in 1972 both have 1.0 lighting circuits. I have worked on multiple houses some are 1.0 some 1.5 none of this means too much.

It does not mean too much at all. But your experiences are 100% opposed to mine.

 

[DPG]

Your

I am not giving an opinion. A factual observation over decades tells me they went by rule of thumb in that they only used 1.5mm for lighting. In domestic houses few went by anything else except rule of thumb.

Talking about this to a Spark a year or so back. He said they last time he calculated anything was when running swa to the bottom of a garden to get the voltage drop.

So your 'facts' are actually just based on houses you have seen, and a spark you were talking to. And despite what other people say, you still think that 1mm cable wasn't readily available until about 2010!

My word.

 

[John-SJW]

Your


So your 'facts' are actually just based on houses you have seen, and a spark you were talking to. And despite what other people say, you still think that 1mm cable wasn't readily available until about 2010!

My word.

I have seen lots of houses in my time believe me.
1.00mm T&E was not readily available over the counter. It was not a commonly sold item, so not on show.

We have to agree to disagree. It is circular.
You have seen 1.00mm T&E all over in the place in the past 30 years, while I never.
I saw most domestic Sparks use rule of thumb, while those you knew never.

 

[DPG]

I

I have seen lots of houses in my time believe me.
1.00mm T&E was not readily available over the counter. It was not a commonly sold item, so not on show.

We have to agree to disagree. It is circular.
You have seen 1.00mm T&E all over in the place in the past 30 years, while I never.
I saw most domestic Sparks use rule of thumb, while those you knew never.

I just find it hard to believe you hadn't seen it installed and hadn't seen it available readily over the counter until 2012.

 

[westward10]

If I am installing for want of better words a simple circuit I know what cable size is required and have no need for calculations this is not rule of thumb it is experience knowing if I had calculated it I would have the same result. I started work in 1981 and was using 1.0 T&E and 1.0 solid singles it was not a rare thing.

 

[7029 dave]

I lived and worked in London in the late 70's to the early 90's and 1mm was readily available in every wholesaler, I always preferred the white T&E for surface work. That is fact

 

[John-SJW]

I


I just find it hard to believe you hadn't seen it installed and hadn't seen it available readily over the counter until 2012.

I knew it was there, saw it occassionally. It was rarely used until LEDs.

 

[DPG]

I knew it was there, saw it occassionally. It was rarely used until LEDs.

Again, that is your opinion. Other people have seen it regularly.

 

[John-SJW]

I lived and worked in London in the late 70's to the early 90's and 1mm was readily available in every wholesaler, I always preferred the white T&E for surface work. That is fact

The only times I saw it were hidden over kitchen cuboards for downlighters, hidden lights, etc, white as well. But most I saw was flex in those situations. Never saw 1.00mm grey T&E in a 1st fix. Never. I do now.

 

[John-SJW]

The only times I saw it were hidden over kitchen cuboards for downlighters, hidden lights, etc. But most I saw was flex in those situations. Never saw 1.00mm T&E in a 1st fix. Never. I do now.

You need to understand opinion and factual observations.

 

[John-SJW]

If I am installing for want of better words a simple circuit I know what cable size is required and have no need for calculations this is not rule of thumb it is experience knowing if I had calculated it I would have the same result.

It was rule of thumb you were using.

 

[7029 dave]

IMO 1.5mm T&E is a waste of copper for lighting circuits, especially now with LED's.

 

[westward10]

It was rule of thumb you were using.

No it was experience there is no rule of thumb.

 

[DPG]

I get the sense that this is intentionally being drawn out by the OP for the sake of it.

 

[John-SJW]

I get the sense that this is intentionally being drawn out by the OP for the sake of it.

I am not the one being objectionable. As I have written, my experinces appear to be 100% the opposite to many here.

 

[brianmoooore]

Very rough rule of thumb for sizing cables is that for lengths up to 50m the current carrying capacity is all you need to consider. Above 50m other considerations come into play.

 

[loz2754]

I was using 1mm T&E in 1979

1980 for me

 

[nicebutdim]

School was just letting me loose on crayons in 1980, but the colours hadn't been harmonised.