Adding a spur to an existing circuit on a BS3036 CU

[electro-lass]

Hi there,
I'm a newly trained electrician with limited experience and could really use some expert advice. I've searched through the forum about this but have only managed to confuse myself further. I have been asked to add a double socket to a living room ring circuit. My plan is to spur off an existing socket in the living room running the cable under the floor boards. The CU is a Wylex BS3036 board. To comply with regulations, does the double socket that I install have to be RCD protected?

 

[electro-lass]

location?

In Hull

 

[BES]

Before you do anything make sure thr circuit you are intending to add to is in good order. As well as the other tests any good electrician would do before considering any additions to the installation.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

In Hull

There should be plenty knocking about we offer one out every July but your a bit far and normally the college gives us a list of names

 

[m top]

All minor works you do should comply with current regs 17th edition Only the work you do has to comply with current regs not the cuircuit you are connecting to, so the socket you are installing has to be rcd protected, your method of installation inline, rcd fused fcu,rcd socket has to be used to be compliant.
Testing do a insulation res test line neutral to earth,zs at socket you are extending from ,ring end to end test to prove you have a ring main to connect to and its not a spur,if all ok away you go happy days!!

 

[electro-lass]

There should be plenty knocking about we offer one out every July but your a bit far and normally the college gives us a list of names

There appear to be plenty knocking around for those in the age range, but for those who are older than 26, there don't seem to be as many opportunities that I've come across anyway

 

[electro-lass]

All minor works you do should comply with current regs 17th edition Only the work you do has to comply with current regs not the cuircuit you are connecting to, so the socket you are installing has to be rcd protected, your method of installation inline, rcd fused fcu,rcd socket has to be used to be compliant.
Testing do a insulation res test line neutral to earth,zs at socket you are extending from ,ring end to end test to prove you have a ring main to connect to and its not a spur,if all ok away you go happy days!!

Appreciate your detailed reply. I have already done continuity, IR and Zs at socket. Now just need to decide best method of installation

 

[telectrix]

and don't forget the 2 colours sticker on the CU, if there isn't 1 there already.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Appreciate your detailed reply. I have already done continuity, IR and Zs at socket.

Have you done your Figure 8/R1+R2 tests to prove it's a true ring/expose any spurs/interconnections etc.?
Reminder, R1+R2 will be virtually the same at every SO on a true ring.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

It appears that there is a difference of opinion as to the sense of adding a RCD FCU or one RCD socket to a non-RCD protected RFC as per a previous comment by wirepuller. Can one of the trusted long-term commenters please advise why some would say it is not a sensible way forward?

Got to learn somehow!

The regulations state that socket outlets intended for general use must be RCD protected. Where this enters into the realm of ridiculous is just the scenario you have. A 3036 board with no RCD protection to any of the circuits, and an electrician protects an isolated socket installed for a table lamp just to comply with the regulations.Despite lack of RCD protection and 3036 fuses as long as disconnection times are met and sockets are not reasonably likely to supply equipment outdoors,contrary to popular opinion the setup has been safe for decades and will be for many more. As already stated I would go with Tel's suggestion which will improve the safety of the entire circuit and be a worthwhile upgrade.
If that is not possible/customer declines cost I refuse to go down the farcical route of an RCD for one lounge socket and would just install it and label it "Not for general use".On the MW form I would state that the socket has been installed without RCD protection for a specific item of equipment.
Thats my take on it,many wont agree,nor am I suggesting it is technically the correct approach.

 

[Octopus]

The regulations state that socket outlets intended for general use must be RCD protected. Where this enters into the realm of ridiculous is just the scenario you have. A 3036 board with no RCD protection to any of the circuits, and an electrician protects an isolated socket installed for a table lamp just to comply with the regulations.Despite lack of RCD protection and 3036 fuses as long as disconnection times are met and sockets are not reasonably likely to supply equipment outdoors,contrary to popular opinion the setup has been safe for decades and will be for many more. As already stated I would go with Tel's suggestion which will improve the safety of the entire circuit and be a worthwhile upgrade.
If that is not possible/customer declines cost I refuse to go down the farcical route of an RCD for one lounge socket and would just install it and label it "Not for general use".On the MW form I would state that the socket has been installed without RCD protection for a specific item of equipment.
Thats my take on it,many wont agree,nor am I suggesting it is technically the correct approach.

Common sense I see. I agree and the muppets who write the regs need to go back and amend them so that the installer/homeowner can jointly agree what is practical

 

[electro-lass]

The regulations state that socket outlets intended for general use must be RCD protected. Where this enters into the realm of ridiculous is just the scenario you have. A 3036 board with no RCD protection to any of the circuits, and an electrician protects an isolated socket installed for a table lamp just to comply with the regulations.Despite lack of RCD protection and 3036 fuses as long as disconnection times are met and sockets are not reasonably likely to supply equipment outdoors,contrary to popular opinion the setup has been safe for decades and will be for many more. As already stated I would go with Tel's suggestion which will improve the safety of the entire circuit and be a worthwhile upgrade.
If that is not possible/customer declines cost I refuse to go down the farcical route of an RCD for one lounge socket and would just install it and label it "Not for general use".On the MW form I would state that the socket has been installed without RCD protection for a specific item of equipment.
Thats my take on it,many wont agree,nor am I suggesting it is technically the correct approach.

Really appreciate you elaborating for me. Far happier getting a fuller understanding rather than just quoting whatever the regs states. My client is open to whatever the best route is so will definitely try my best to go with Tel's as it makes sense. At least now I can fully explain it to her, rather than just saying 'that's what the regs state', and then she can make an informed decision.

 

[m top]

Just tell the customer the cuircuit needs rcd protection if they are not prepared for the upgrade don't do the job wouldn't be more than a 100 any how's .

 

[Silly Sausage]

............ the setup has been safe for decades and will be for many more.

By extension, you could dismiss all editions and regs all the way back to the two sides of A4 that were the 1st Edition.

.... that the installer/homeowner can jointly agree what is practical

Would you seriously consider getting into discussions with customers about what or doesn't comply with the regs because it might not be considered practical or awkward or cost more or ...., you're creating a Cat 'o Nine Tails for your own back!

Think of some muppet who's got his hands a copy of the regs and thinks he understands them or has gone on an internet forum and got some advice...need I say more?

Just tell them, to comply with current regulations, the job needs to be done 'this way', end of!!!

 

[MDJ]

BPEC Part P Defined Scope, Full Scope,

Hmm, nothing to publically mention and be proud of

 

[Deleted member 9648]

[QUOTE=Archy Styrigg;887885]By extension, you could dismiss all editions and regs all the way back to the two sides of A4 that were the 1st Edition.



Would you seriously consider getting into discussions with customers about what or doesn't comply with the regs because it might not be considered practical or awkward or cost more or ...., you're creating a Cat 'o Nine Tails for your own back!

Think of some muppet who's got his hands a copy of the regs and thinks he understands them or has gone on an internet forum and got some advice...need I say more?

Just tell them, to comply with current regulations, the job needs to be done 'this way', end of!!![/QUOTE]

Agree if you are telling them they have to RCD the whole circuit....dont agree if you are telling them their one table lamp socket has to be on an RCD when nothing else in the house is.