Blanks missing from CU in 2 senarios

[Deleted member 26818]

Which are totally open to interpretation.

Code C2 for missing blank plate.
Code C1 for exposed ‘live’ conductive parts.

 

[Risteard]

It’s not an interpretation, it’s an application of the Regulations as written.

Not sure how bins, radiators etc. would meet the BS7671 definition of exposed conductive parts... They don't form part of the electrical installation.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Not sure how bins, radiators etc. would meet the BS7671 definition of exposed conductive parts... They don't form part of the electrical installation.

A metal CU does.
Metal conduit does.
Metal clad sockets do.
Face plate screws do.
Etc.

 

[solarsavings]

Not in the same way a buss bar does.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I would 99.9% of the time code a missing blank as C1 and I rarely give C1's.

It's a great big hole with a big piece of live copper behind it which is easily touchable!

 

[westward10]

Yes a potential danger which is not the standing of a Code 1.

 

[Nigel]

Yes a potential danger which is not the standing of a Code 1.

What would you consider a C1?

 

[westward10]

What would you consider a C1?

I think the Code definitions are poorly defined. Code 1 Danger present, what does that actually actually represent. Code 2 Potentially dangerous is clear that there is potential for an incident. An mcb blank missing offers a potential to danger.
So what is Danger present?

 

[Nigel]

I think the Code definitions are poorly defined. Code 1 Danger present, what does that actually actually represent. Code 2 Potentially dangerous is clear that there is potential for an incident. An mcb blank missing offers a potential to danger.
So what is Danger present?

Answer my question first.

 

[westward10]

No.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Not read the whole thread. I will C1 missing blanks as if a Lighting circuit trips out people could be putting there hands though that hole in the dark.

However if the bus bar is correctly shrouded where MCBs are missing it’s a C2.

As Westward said, it’s all about personal judgement

 

[ferg]

An exposed live busbar, potentially protected by nothing other than a cutout fuse.... C1 for me all day every day.

Although to be fair for the 10 seconds and pennies in parts I just deal with it there and then.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Yes a potential danger which is not the standing of a Code 1.

I think with that argument Westward there would never be a C1 as you could argue that a CU with it's cover left off is only 'potentially' dangerous.

 

[Spoon]

Just to add a bit more fuel to the fire. I do remember a thread where there was a discussion about the types of blanking used. Some said that they only use the din rail fixed ones. Ones that need a tool to remove.
So do the blanking plates that just push on need coding? Any small kid could take one off..

 

[westward10]

I think with that argument Westward there would never be a C1 as you could argue that a CU with it's cover left off is only 'potentially' dangerous.

This is my point on the Code definitions. Separate Danger Present and Potentially Dangerous, they walk the same path to a hazard. What is Danger Present, something Potentially Dangerous.

 

[Deleted account]

I would 99.9% of the time code a missing blank as C1 and I rarely give C1's.

It's a great big hole with a big piece of live copper behind it which is easily touchable!

What circumstances would the 0.01% occur?

As mentioned earlier I would NOT C1 it as I would pop some spare blanks on to bring it up to standard. I always carry them and it costs minimal pennies and vertically no time.

However for those lazy penny pitchers who wouldn't do this I think a C1 should apply.

 

[westward10]

A danger present which is potentially dangerous

 

[Deleted account]

I think the Code definitions are poorly defined. Code 1 Danger present,

Isn't C1 classed as "immediately dangerous" rather than danger present.
Self explanatory definition in my opinion.

If an exposed live part does not have suitable basic protection to prevent it being touched. That to me is immediately dangerous.

 

[ferg]

My understanding is that immediately dangerous is something that does not require a second fault to be dangerous.

No earthing c2 exposed live parts c1

 

[Spoon]

EICR audits _________ - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/eicr-audits-_________.167487/

Found it...

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

What about plastic blanks in a new metal dist board, surely effects the fire rating?

 

[westward10]

My understanding is that immediately dangerous is something that does not require a second fault to be dangerous.

No earthing c2 exposed live parts c1

Where does it state that.

 

[westward10]

Isn't C1 classed as "immediately dangerous" rather than danger present.
Self explanatory definition in my opinion.

If an exposed live part does not have suitable basic protection to prevent it being touched. That to me is immediately dangerous.

No it initially states Danger Present. Later it explains there is risk of injury. Immediate remedial action required. Strangely it also explains Code 2 as urgent remedial action required. What is the difference?
This is the issue I have with how they are defined. What is Danger Present which overrides Potentially Dangerous.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Merlin Gerin and Schneider boards have sliders to energise each way.
If those sliders are off where there are no MCBs, where’s the exposed live conductive parts?
Similarly old MEM DBs have removable ‘Y’ shaped pieces of metal to connect between the MCBs and the hidden bus bars.
Most CUs have shrouds and bus bars which can be cut to length.
So like I said code C2 for missing blanks and code C1 where there is exposed live conductive parts.

 

[Deleted account]

No it initially states Danger Present. Later it explains there is risk of injury. Immediate remedial action required. .

Quite right westward10.

I stand corrected, just checked in the BBB.

 

[Nigel]

I think with that argument Westward there would never be a C1 as you could argue that a CU with it's cover left off is only 'potentially' dangerous.

Exactly. Hence the reason he is reluctant to back up his stance and give us examples of C1s.

 

[Nigel]

This is my point on the Code definitions. Separate Danger Present and Potentially Dangerous, they walk the same path to a hazard. What is Danger Present, something Potentially Dangerous.

I am not sure if you are being deliberatly obtuse but I will play the game with you.

If you read it literally then everything has the potential to be dangerous. If we use common sense it is very obvious what the intention is.

 

[westward10]

I am playing no games, both Code definitions lead to the same place. I have plenty of common sense.

 

[Nigel]

I am playing no games, both Code definitions lead to the same place. I have plenty of common sense.

So you don’t know the difference between ‘potential’ and ‘present’?

 

[westward10]

Define danger present.