Hi I am recently qualified and still have a lot of learning/reading to do but Blue plastic waterpipe incoming, seems to always be a grey area with electricians I work with, me personally wouldn’t bond it..... Although we have to prove that in the plumbers install their is no copper going to earth?? Can someone enlighten me on this please

Many thanks..... and go easy on me lol
 
Yellow OSG Sec 4.5 'Main protective bonding of plastic services'. There's no shock here (excuse the pun), it says there's no requirement to bond plastic services.

Continuing on page 46; 'Where there is a plastic service and a metal installation within the premises, main bonding is recommended unless it has been confirmed that any metallic pipework within the building is not introducing Earth potential (see 4.3, (referencing to reg 411.3.1.2).

I have had a quick shufty through GN8, and can't seem to find specific mention of the above scenario.

What do you make of the definition of extraneous-conductive-part in BS7671?
That was 16mins :eek::p
 
NHBC “snagged” me on this on some new builds, yellow plastic incoming on the gas with about a meter of copper on show ran inside a garage clearly not extraneous and tested to prove so. Even after exerts sent from regs/osg apparently it wasn’t acceptable and they wouldn’t issue their cert or warranty. I was very annoyed as I had to go back and bond all of them which cost me money and made me look like I was in the wrong. He said “everyone else runs an earth to it so you are clearly in the wrong” could of smacked the smug ---.
 
It goes onto say about internal metallic pipework which may be buried in the ground for convenience............but I'm not typing all that out for you :)
Even if the incoming services are not plastic and are bonded at entry, you would bond again if services are buried in the ground within the premises.
 
Even if the incoming services are not plastic and are bonded at entry, you would bond again if services are buried in the ground within the premises.

Never knew that.

Can you reference that for me and explain why is it’s a continuous copper pipe?

Unless the reason is you don’t know it’s a continuous pipe? But that’s a simple test....I’m confused.
 
Problem with pipework that ducks under ground, is you don’t know what is happening with it.
Is it continuous?
Has it corroded?
Is it protected against corrosion?
Are there branches, or is it itself a branch?
Can you guarantee the pipe will never be disconnected?

The other problem is that the minimum CSA for an Earth conductor buried in the ground and not protected against corrosion by a sheath is 25mm2, 16mm2 if protected.
 
Can someone reference the reg for testing an extraneous-conductive-part, in the examples given by 411.3.1.2. I only ask that, you would not need to test (those examples), as the reg says they have to be bonded, end of?
 
re spinlondon's post:

The other problem is that the minimum CSA for an Earth conductor buried in the ground and not protected against corrosion by a sheath is 25mm2, 16mm2 if protected.

sureley that's for an earthing conductor, as in connected to a rod., not for a bonding conductor?
 
re spinlondon's post:

The other problem is that the minimum CSA for an Earth conductor buried in the ground and not protected against corrosion by a sheath is 25mm2, 16mm2 if protected.

sureley that's for an earthing conductor, as in connected to a rod., not for a bonding conductor?
Agree that would make nonsense of the 4mm2 non protected and 2.5mm2 protected rules for supplementary bonding conductors, wouldn't it? Or has that been changed?
 
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When the 18th is published it looks like they have put it in black and white that if the incomer is plastic then doesn't need bonding.
That sounds promising Lee! Where did you see that, can you post a link please?
 
Can someone reference the reg for testing an extraneous-conductive-part, in the examples given by 411.3.1.2. I only ask that, you would not need to test (those examples), as the reg says they have to be bonded, end of?
There’s no Reg stating you have to test whether something is an extraneous conductive-Part.
There’s no need for one.
If it’s extraneous (i.e. comes into the building from outside), is conductive (i.e. can conduct electricity) and likely to introduce a difference in potential, then it needs bonding.

Determining whether something is extraneous is relatively easy, in the majority of instances you don’t even need to look, you just know.
Gas, water, electricity, cable TV, satalite TV, waste water, telephone, oil, etc. they’re all extraneous.

Determining whether something is a conductive-part however, seems to be problematic.
Plastic coated telephone cables, satellite and cable TV cables along with plastic waste pipes are all deemed as non-conductive.
For some reason, there’s confusion as to whether plastic gas pipes, plastic water pipes and plastic coated oil lines are conductive.
Because of this confusion, a lot of people are advising we test these supplies to determine whether there’s any connection to Earth.
Unfortunately there seems to be various views on what resistances indicate either a reliable connection to Earth or no connection to Earth.
Some say 0.05 Ohms, others say 20 Ohms indicate a reliable connection to Earth.
For whether there’s no connection to Earth the figures for resistance are 23 Mohms or 7.67 Kohms (22 Mohms and 6.67 Kohms when the 1 Mohm resistance of the human body is taken into account).
 
There’s no Reg stating you have to test whether something is an extraneous conductive-Part.
There’s no need for one.
If it’s extraneous (i.e. comes into the building from outside), is conductive (i.e. can conduct electricity) and likely to introduce a difference in potential, then it needs bonding.

Determining whether something is extraneous is relatively easy, in the majority of instances you don’t even need to look, you just know.
Gas, water, electricity, cable TV, satalite TV, waste water, telephone, oil, etc. they’re all extraneous.

Tis what I've been saying for the best part of this thread. If its metal and comes out of the ground or into a building, then according to 411.3.1.2 it needs bonding. Some are suggesting testing it. Doesn't need testing, just bonding.

My rub is, with the plastic metal combo, unless your building the property yourself, how do you ensure that the metal part of the combo, isn't 'liable' to do the above.
 
I did some students flats last year.
Plastic incoming water supply to each building then copper pipework.
From copper in the corridors it went to plastic entering each student room.
Showed the apprentice the testing procedure for testing extraneous parts using an insulation resistance tester.
The result was around 20Mohms.
Did I bond any copper pipes?
NOPE!:)
 
Ok my last swipe at this; you don't test the pipes for 411.3.1.2, 544.1.2 says bond it after plastic.

I think this will just keep going around, until the 18th comes out.

This had an interesting discussion on such testing etc;

Bonding water services when plastic pipes are present - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/bonding-water-services-when-plastic-pipes-are-present.61592/

Earthing water. Part plastic, part copper - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/earthing-water-part-plastic-part-copper.30881/
 
re spinlondon's post:

The other problem is that the minimum CSA for an Earth conductor buried in the ground and not protected against corrosion by a sheath is 25mm2, 16mm2 if protected.

sureley that's for an earthing conductor, as in connected to a rod., not for a bonding conductor?
Alsways took it as applying to al Earth conductors.
Main earths, bonding, CPCs, etc.
 
Still not convinced.

However, having verified (by testing) that the internal metal pipework was extraneous and required bonding, would you bond it using a main protective bonding conductor or using a supplementary bonding conductor?
 
It's not a grey area. If it's an extraneous conductive part it needs bonding. If it's not an extraneous conductive part it doesn't need bonding. I always run a green and yellow in for gas and water on a new builds as I've had muppet meter fitters refusing to connect as no bonding, even though it didn't require bonding. If they moan I connect it then chop it off when the muppet has finished.

The other favourite of theirs is when they tell you the gas isn't bonded and they've only looked at the external meter box. They then insist it should be bonded at the external meter box even though we all know the regs say it should be at the point of entry into the building. Muppets
 
The other favourite of theirs is when they tell you the gas isn't bonded and they've only looked at the external meter box. They then insist it should be bonded at the external meter box even though we all know the regs say it should be at the point of entry into the building. Muppets
Lets be fair the meter box IS the entry point to the building, albeit external, that's where the Gas and Electricity enter the building, it does in my house.
 
Let’s face it if you didn’t bond it at the meter box then the only other logical place is the likes of the boiler as take new builds the pipe enters the house and is buried in the wall.
Then it’s not bonded within 600mm of point of entry.
 

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