Bonding gas/water yellow and blue

[Houndogg10]

Hi I am recently qualified and still have a lot of learning/reading to do but Blue plastic waterpipe incoming, seems to always be a grey area with electricians I work with, me personally wouldn’t bond it..... Although we have to prove that in the plumbers install their is no copper going to earth?? Can someone enlighten me on this please

Many thanks..... and go easy on me lol

 

[telectrix]

basically, you need to determine if any metal water pipes are extraneous. i.e. are they connected physically to the mass of earth. to do this, you set your MFT to IR test. test between the suspect pipe and your MET. if the reading is > 22k Ohms, then it does not require bonding.

 

[Houndogg10]

basically, you need to determine if any metal water pipes are extraneous. i.e. are they connected physically to the mass of earth. to do this, you set your MFT to IR test. test between the suspect pipe and your MET. if the reading is > 22k Ohms, then it does not require bonding.

So does that mean only if they are accessible? And what if the blue plastic goes straight to white plastic? Would we have to take the bond over to the copper?

 

[telectrix]

not if the copper complies with my previous post.

 

[Ian1981]

It’s highly unlikely that a mains water pipe entering a property in blue plastic then to copper will introduce an earth potential to the property unless said copper pipework is perhaps buried at some point in the ground.
Also when I ever see plastic incomers joining to copper say in commercial buildings and flats,the copper eventually joins to plastic again so it’s never necessary to provide protective bonding.

 

[Houndogg10]

So where does metal frame houses/flats fall into this?

 

[kenny7askew]

So where does metal frame houses/flats fall into this?

as per telectrix advice,you test it

 

[Midwest]

Of course there is the other viewpoint. In some point in the future that pipework after the plastic might be come ''extraneous' through refurbishments etc, so if you don't bond it from new (and it might get 'earthed' from parallel paths), and 10 years down the line it does become extraneous and requires bonding, how do you get a cable from the front to the back of the property. Just bond, and forget.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Yay, let’s increase the number of conductive parts that will become live in the event of a fault.

 

[kenny7askew]

Of course there is the other viewpoint. In some point in the future that pipework after the plastic might be come ''extraneous' through refurbishments etc, so if you don't bond it from new (and it might get 'earthed' from parallel paths), and 10 years down the line it does become extraneous and requires bonding, how do you get a cable from the front to the back of the property. Just bond, and forget.

interesting viewpoint but you cant bond to start with if its plastic and you cant really forecast what might happen in future

 

[Leesparkykent]

Of course there is the other viewpoint. In some point in the future that pipework after the plastic might be come ''extraneous' through refurbishments etc, so if you don't bond it from new (and it might get 'earthed' from parallel paths), and 10 years down the line it does become extraneous and requires bonding, how do you get a cable from the front to the back of the property. Just bond, and forget.

When the 18th is published it looks like they have put it in black and white that if the incomer is plastic then doesn't need bonding.

 

[Ian1981]

It’s strange that every new build I see has now ditched the bonding to the water pipe as it’s plastic everywhere anyway but the gas still connects to the wall mounted meter outside in yellow plastic pipe.
Enters the property in copper but can’t see how it’s extraneous in that way?
Perhaps when the 18th is published they might not provide bonding to the gas anymore?

 

[Pete999]

Hi I am recently qualified and still have a lot of learning/reading to do but Blue plastic waterpipe incoming, seems to always be a grey area with electricians I work with, me personally wouldn’t bond it..... Although we have to prove that in the plumbers install their is no copper going to earth?? Can someone enlighten me on this please

Many thanks..... and go easy on me lol

 

[Midwest]

Thought that might generate some replies, by the way I wasn't suggesting bonding a plastic pipe.

All most every domestic dwelling I work in with a plastic water service and copper internals, has the copper bonded. This isn't new builds. Now that may be 'cos we've always done it that way, or ignorance, or because it was tested and found not to be extraneous.

So not bonding the metal element of a water service is correct, if when tested, is found not to be extraneous. What then if additional appliances (requiring cpc) are connected, which could change the results of that test, or the pipework is altered with the same result.

How do you now get a suitable cable to that point to bond it. How many of you test an existing install, to see if the existing pipework is extraneous, removing the water bond if necessary?

Not saying I'm right, just interested in the views of my more learned colleagues.

 

[davesparks]

The point that is often missed in this kind of discussion is that the regulations apply to far more installations than domestic, and there are more things than just gas and water pipes which can need bonding.

 

[Midwest]

The point that is often missed in this kind of discussion is that the regulations apply to far more installations than domestic, and there are more things than just gas and water pipes which can need bonding.

It does keep things simple, in this case for the discussion.

 

[LeeH]

In respect to your classic plastic incomer, sometimes it’s easier to bond it (the copper pipe work) than it is to prove it isn’t extraneous.

 

[DPG]

In respect to your classic plastic incomer, sometimes it’s easier to bond it (the copper pipe work) than it is to prove it isn’t extraneous.

Easier yes, quicker - maybe, but correct??

 

[LeeH]

If you cannot prove it isn’t then yes.

Turn it on it’s head, would it be correct not to?

 

[Pete999]

I think you will find that it says "if the water / gas pipe enters the house is of plastic construction, and the rest of the pipework is copper, then this copper must be bonded, are we not getting our wires crossed with the > than 22Kohms refers to supplementary bonding, not main bonding, open for discussion?