Commercial kitchen containment

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davesparks

Does anyone know what, if any, rules cover the type of containment which can be installed in a commercial kitchen?

I have always been under the impression that stainless steel conduit is required, but have never had anything to back this up.

I'm just working on a quote for a load of odd jobs which includes adding a few more sockets in a kitchen. And I most certainly haven't been given access to the other 3 quotes which have already been submitted, none of which include stainless conduit, they all are for standard galvanised (or galvaneised in the case of one quote!) so this has got me questioning my understanding.
 
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think stainless is required in food prep. and cooking areas, but don't quote me on that. might be an adea to speak to your local environmental health officers.
 
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I can vaguely recall something to do with the fixing of the containment, that normal saddles for the conduit were not allowed, they had to be a sort of stand off the wall type for cleaning reasons, I was not involved with that particular job though but another spark was querying a few bits with us.

As far as I was aware painted conduit was also allowed, that may have changed though.
 
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davesparks said:
The rough surface gives a potential home to bacteria.
The possibility of corrosion wherever the galvanising is damaged.
Click to expand...

I can think of plenty of rougher surfaces that would be just as close to food in many kitchens I have been in. And galv damage is usually repaired with galv paint. I would be extremely surprised if a health inspector snagged the specification of containment.
I know stainless steel is used for food contact areas but unless SS is in your spec for this job I think you mght be pricing yourself out of it without need.
 
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spark 68 said:
I can vaguely recall something to do with the fixing of the containment, that normal saddles for the conduit were not allowed, they had to be a sort of stand off the wall type for cleaning reasons, I was not involved with that particular job though but another spark was querying a few bits with us.

As far as I was aware painted conduit was also allowed, that may have changed though.
Click to expand...

Hospital saddles?
 
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I'll try it on the laptop later, it may just not be working on the phone.

The next question that this logically brings to mind is what accessories should be used? Standard steel metalclad will have the potential for electrolytic corrosion, which everyone knows can be pretty rapid between steel and stainless steel in a damp environment.
 
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Andy78 said:
I know stainless steel is used for food contact areas but unless SS is in your spec for this job I think you mght be pricing yourself out of it without need.
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As I said earlier I have most certainly not seen the other quotes, so there is no danger of me pricing myself out of this one.

Since the other people quoting haven't got a clue about how things are done in the entertainment industry I can well and truly spank their prices on the rest of the work, so overall if my quote for a few sockets in the kitchen is bit higher than them I'll still be leaps and bounds ahead of them.
 
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spark 68 said:
I can vaguely recall something to do with the fixing of the containment, that normal saddles for the conduit were not allowed, they had to be a sort of stand off the wall type for cleaning reasons
Click to expand...

Presumably you're referring to distance/hospital saddles.

I have done a School Meals Kitchen with stainless trunking before but also galvanised containment in other areas of the canteen.
 
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I thouht it was to do with the depth of the saddle not the actual form of manufacture that mattered. The smallest being space bar, distance then hospital. With munsen rings on a piece of threaded bar being the deepest lol.
 
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rapparee said:
I thouht it was to do with the depth of the saddle not the actual form of manufacture that mattered. The smallest being space bar, distance then hospital. With munsen rings on a piece of threaded bar being the deepest lol.
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A hospital saddle is defined by its shape, it should be a smooth curved surface. The reason being that dust and dirt will tend to roll of and not collect on them in a hospital environment, also it is easier to clean. It dates from the times when hospitals were kept spotlessly clean under the watchful gaze of matron.
 
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Risteard said:
Presumably you're referring to distance/hospital saddles.

I have done a School Meals Kitchen with stainless trunking before but also galvanised containment in other areas of the canteen.
Click to expand...

The actual type the other spark showed me were slightly different to either the normal distance saddles, or those hospital clamps shown earlier, they had two screw fixings for the wall part and
a short piece of solid round bar as the stand off bit with the back half of the clamp, a smaller version of what you see on gas/compressed air and water pipe fixings.

If I recall they were fitting plastic IP rated accessories, like I say I was not involved with the job, this may have been a food factory install though when I think about it, presumably they were working to a given spec sheet.
 
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spark 68 said:
The actual type the other spark showed me were slightly different to either the normal distance saddles, or those hospital clamps shown earlier, they had two screw fixings for the wall part and
a short piece of solid round bar as the stand off bit with the back half of the clamp, a smaller version of what you see on gas/compressed air and water pipe fixings.

If I recall they were fitting plastic IP rated accessories, like I say I was not involved with the job, this may have been a food factory install though when I think about it, presumably they were working to a given spec sheet.
Click to expand...

Munsen rings!
 
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I'd suggest following the existing spec of what's been previously installed or ask the client for their requirements. Generally stainless isn't required unless it's right inside a food zone. S/Steel containment is hellish expensive unless you consider 3CR12 as stainless so there could be a massive difference in prices if you're the only one quoting to use it.
 
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I've been in loads of commercial kitchens and food prep areas and never seen stainless conduit or trunking.
Modern ones are almost always PVC conduit and trunking.

The only definite NO is anything involving wood.
Hospital saddles are for Hospitals.

If it's in the customer's spec tho' that's what it would have to be.
 
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snowhead said:
I've been in loads of commercial kitchens and food prep areas and never seen stainless conduit or trunking.
Modern ones are almost always PVC conduit and trunking.

The only definite NO is anything involving wood.
Hospital saddles are for Hospitals.

If it's in the customer's spec tho' that's what it would have to be.
Click to expand...

The customers spec is 'I want some more sockets'
 
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I don't see why using hospital saddles is a bad idea they are designed to space the conduit off the wall for ease of cleaning and they minimise the build up of dirt and dust which is only a good thing when it comes to food hygiene.
 
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PVC will not be allowed, everything has to be in shiny metal in all of their buildings for artistic reasons. (Welcome to the entertainment industry) the options are galv or stainless.
If I could get away with anything then id be using micc out of choice.
 
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Andy78 said:
Quote for both for extra brownie points.
Click to expand...


That's the sure fire way of ensuring any over spec won't impact on the outcome of pricing a job
icon14.png
 
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The only time i've seen anything like S/Steel for surface installations is in factory food preparation and processing environments, never seen it used in commercial kitchens. Our hospital central kitchen(s) do not have surface electrical installations everything is contained within solid and stud walls or within the floor slabs with tiled or stainless steel finishes etc.

How many commercial kitchens are cleaned to the level some are hinting at here?? In my experience very few, and that even includes top hotel restaurants. If anything the opposite is generally the norm, until the H&S pays a visit, then things will improve ........for a while!!
 
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7029 dave said:
As somebody mentioned , give them an price for both, I personaly have not used stainless steel.Bet it's very soft to set.?
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Never used S/S conduit but generally S/S is anything but soft. I guess it depends on the conduits wall thickness. Be interesting to know how easy (or otherwise) S/S conduit is to thread also?

I've seen a full copper conduit installation in the Houses of Parliament with brass alloy conduit boxes, beautiful installation is was too all brazed/soldered connections to boxes etc. I'm sure some daft electrician in the future will still want to run in separate CPC's though!! lol!!
 
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Engineer54 said:
Never used S/S conduit but generally S/S is anything but soft. I guess it depends on the conduits wall thickness. Be interesting to know how easy (or otherwise) S/S conduit is to thread also?

I've seen a full copper conduit installation in the Houses of Parliament with brass alloy conduit boxes, beautiful installation is was too all brazed/soldered connections to boxes etc. I'm sure some daft electrician in the future will still want to run in separate CPC's though!! lol!!
Click to expand...

S/S conduit is very soft to bend, don't recall it being too hard to thread tbh. A little tougher but not much.
 
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davesparks said:
PVC will not be allowed, everything has to be in shiny metal in all of their buildings for artistic reasons. (Welcome to the entertainment industry) the options are galv or stainless.
If I could get away with anything then id be using micc out of choice.
Click to expand...

Get it all formed in steel, then take it down the Chrome platers.
Well shiny! :-)
 
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