Could really do with some help!

[stevie_sausage]

On Monday just gone I carried out and Electrical Installation Condition report for the company I work for their were 13 circuits across 2 C.U 5 of which were 20a radials across a rcd controlled c.u for E7, the boards were wylex type and were fitted in Oct 2009 I did the test everything was in acceptable condition apart from a couple of C2/C3 notifications. sadly, the property caught fire that night, thank God the family was safe and got out! the customer was awoke by smoke alarms triggering at about 1 am. the boards have completely disintergrated ( I've not seen them only what I have been told) only remaining is copper no plastic enclosure and none of the plastic on mcb's etc, supplier has already removed the metering equipment . the next day my company sent a company who audit samples of our work that we carry out back to the property to re-do the test to check their results were in line with mine and that the test had been carried out correctly. They where. having spoken to my employers they want me to come back to work but obviously dont want me back on the tools until they have finished their investigation. However they are not going to get a forensic specialist in to determine the cause of the fire, though I want and would welcome them to, but they wont and this is where I am hoping some of you could possibly help me....



I am aware from looking over the last few days (hindsight is a wonderful thing) that around the 2009-10 Electrium gave a recall to faulty (wylex) mcb's that could and have in some cases caught fire, I have seen a few posts on-line where unfortunately they have, if anyone has come across them causing fires could you please post what happened and how fast the fire burnt through the board. the customer went to bed at 11pm monday night and as stated was awoke at 1am so this gives a two hour window for this to mainifest itself into a full blown fire, if it was surely you would have seen some smoke or s/alarm would have triggered in the hallway were the fuseboard is situated if it was 'slow burning' also customer would have surely got the legendary fishy smell throughout the day which would really have caused alarm with me only finishing the test at 1:50pm on the monday. I cannot rule out a mistake on my part unless forensics are brought in however having been in this industry for near 20 years I have never known 2x fuseboards go completely on fire & disintergrate within 2 hours after smouldering for 9 due to a loose connection ( please enlighten me if you have) again if it was loose connections would the power have not started cutting out depending on what was loose etc (testers said everything that remained was tight btw) I'm really at a loss here and could really do with some help as a bad name in this industry sure travels quick. thank you all.

 

[dazza1981]

Or next doors bill is 0 pound

 

[kingeri]

Maybe they just use electric to heat the house?

 

[Rockingit]

so how do you take photos to show if the connections are tight or not in the fuse board?

Clearly you can't. But the process of thoroughly documenting your work, and being able to waive the only Polaroids in existence as evidence would carry an enormous amount of weight with any judge / jury.

 

[dazza1981]

i agree!

 

[dazza1981]

Maybe they just use electric to heat the house?

Are you sure,perhaps they are using over 200 quid a month by leaving the tv on standby?

 

[stuartcourt]

maybe like myself they left the electric underfloor heating on in the west side of there manor felt such a fool

 

[dazza1981]

maybe like myself they left the electric underfloor heating on in the west side of there manor felt such a fool

which reminds me i must switch off the power to the heated pool

 

[moose]

Did you check the loft for a Weed infection if you know what i mean, there have been a few of these reported, remember these lights can give off some amazing use of power

 

[R G]

Does anyone remember the thread regarding the fitting off MCBs on the bus bar a couple of weeks ago , and how easy it is to get the clamp the wrong side of it , this could have been the case and just by swiching the breaker off and on may have unsettled it , no fault by the testing sparks , as fault was allready in place, just a thought.

 

[JoeDurky]

Off the subject abit and I really do feel for the op, and not saying he would do this or other sparks. When I was doing price work for council it was £25 if I remember rightly for a full test and kitchen 2nd fix. The tests were carried out by various electricians sub contracting to the electrical contractors. As anyone here would no the tests would never be done correctly on that sort of price. Would you say that was greed as to why the price was so low and why would you trust the reports and results from somebody you are paying so little. It amazes me people get away with this sort of thing.

 

[oldtimer]

I think we can all agree that the £60 EICR brigade does not help because this forces corners to be cut plus we live in a so called free market that only does one thing ie drives down costs because one manufacturer moves their production to China or India and the shareholders a happy but we have lost a pile of jobs here matters not a jot so the other manufacturers are forced to do the same to compete on price in other words a race to the bottom then in China and India they are doing the same trying to drive costs down to get more profits.

 

[stevie_sausage]

Hi everyone thanks for all the messages of support etc and theories as to what may have caused it. Since yesterday I have gone off and tried to do some research regarding the defective mcbs and after much digging I have found fire brigade reports in both London & Edinburgh were they have attended fires with regard to defective mcbs (one of which had attended numerous fires due to the mcbs and the other had attended three in a week in a sheltered scheme and even made notes regarding the recall on their reports so it is arguable it us a common occurance. I have compiled a report on this as the company I work for May not be aware of it anyway and it should be highlighted to all elecs asap regardless of my staying or not. In terms of checking lofts I did check lofts as I always do for two reasons 1 people are notorious for DIYing a light up there, and 2 to check cable runs etc for any thermal damage. Admittedly its not a thorough check (just around the first couple of feet in the loft hatch) but I found no evidence of growing. Lastly I too am aware of these exceptionally low prices some companies charge for eicr. I left a company 2 yrs ago after only being there a week for that precise reason. Their idea of a test fell way short of what you would expect it to be. But, where they get away with it is because they're not doing the test testing spark is and should it go pear shaped its the spark in the dock. That is why I have argued for many years that people not companies should be registered with the NICEIC. As it takes the power out the firms hand and puts it where it should be, in the hands of the spark.

 

[JoeDurky]

I haven't done my testing exam yet and have never tested an installation, everyone I have known have not done IR tests on new installs as they say they no there fine and also have seen them not done on Eicr's. Also the people I have seen test have done Eli tests and calculated continuity of cpc. Also have seen people test Eli on only live and neutral as they couldn't get a reading from earth and then calculate continuity from that.

 

[stevie_sausage]

Hi Joe on any install you should endevour to do all tests including IR with loads disconnected unless it is an operational/agreed limitation, plus if the install is new its doesn't mean its correct could be nails in cables or anything, plus when its new its the easiest time to test. Not fully testing is a bad & dangerous habit to get into mate.

 

[stuartcourt]

anyone who does not do a full test is a fool we all make mistakes

 

[oldtimer]

Remember 95% of MCBs or RCDs are made in either China or India and yes we hope the importers ie the CU manufacturers are doing quality assurance testing but me thinks not . Thing is if it is traced to faulty equipment fine but if these incidents become more common then they will do something about it

Well well what were we talking about and now MK doing a recall Deary dear he we go again

 

[chopper76]

I got called out two weeks ago to a property that had a fire in a sector board (part of the electrium group recall), fire brigade had put it out, it seemed to start at the base of the mcb above the busbar connection,

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I got called out two weeks ago to a property that had a fire in a sector board (part of the electrium group recall), fire brigade had put it out, it seemed to start at the base of the mcb above the busbar connection,

probably the busbar was of the forked type....and was not properly located/secured by the terminal screw.....
got to watch it with them forked busbars...

- - - Updated - - -

an inspection mirror on a little stick will give the game away...

 

[p d stott ltd]

went to job of mine in old pump house ,water dripping on suppliers meter and cutout caught fire leavin nothing.was lucky nothing flamable,elecy board jus turned up and changed it.was thinking there equipment didnt disconect properly and in different circumstances whole building could have gone up and they would maybe pin on me.suppliers meters were removed were they below yer boards.