Dodgy trade pictures for your amusement! - 1 Million Views!

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Can't have flat plate accessories in my (new build) new house I guess....

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What an utterly stupid position to fit the main switch with the top so close to the top of the meter box, the outgoing tails then look a mess, that was probably the meter bodger fitter though. I don't suppose the Electrical Contractors have the initials CE by any chance ?
 
Went to one of the local residents place today as she was having issues with her Zappi and Renault Zoe.

Looking at the setup it was straightforward and, whilst not necessarily the way I’d have done it, it was still compliant.

So tried to run a Zs test L-PE but got a ‘con’ error on my Megger which means the earth is either unstable or disconnected. R1-R2 was within tolerance. So I knew the continuity through was fine.

The Zoe is quite fussy and if it detects an earth problem it won’t let the car charge.

House is out in the stick and on a TT system. So I ran a Ze at the origin of the supply and this was the lowest result I got.

IMG_2097.jpeg


It was fluctuating between 688 and 746.

Someone has had the wisdom to bury the earth rod connection under some decking and flower bed. Meaning it’s inaccessible to check if it’s just loose, or poorly installed.

Ground is rocky as hell so going to be fun getting in some new rods to get the Ze below 200. May end up daisy chaining 3-4 rods just to get it down. But will see how it goes.
 
Raptor0014 said:
Someone has had the wisdom to bury the earth rod connection under some decking and flower bed. Meaning it’s inaccessible to check if it’s just loose, or poorly installed.

Ground is rocky as hell so going to be fun getting in some new rods to get the Ze below 200. May end up daisy chaining 3-4 rods just to get it down. But will see how it goes.
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It has also been very dry so if the rod is not deep it probably has got that issue as well.

Might be an excuse to try one of these (and the matching SDS adaptor) to get a new rod down through rocky ground:
www.cef.co.uk

Earth Rod Pro Drill Bit (Pack of 1)

Allows rapid earth rod installation when used with Earth Rod Pro drivers - sold separately [1LERPD] and [1LERPM]
www.cef.co.uk
 
pc1966 said:
It has also been very dry so if the rod is not deep it probably has got that issue as well.

Might be an excuse to try one of these (and the matching SDS adaptor) to get a new rod down through rocky ground:
www.cef.co.uk

Earth Rod Pro Drill Bit (Pack of 1)

Allows rapid earth rod installation when used with Earth Rod Pro drivers - sold separately [1LERPD] and [1LERPM]
www.cef.co.uk
Click to expand...
Already have the adapter and have quoted for the sacrificial bits.

Used them before and they are very good. I’m guessing they have only used 1 rod as I can usually get the reading somewhere around 50ohms if I use two 16mm rods.
 
Raptor0014 said:
Already have the adapter and have quoted for the sacrificial bits.

Used them before and they are very good.
Click to expand...
Good to hear! I modified M16 stainless threaded rod with angle grinder to achieve much the same before.
Raptor0014 said:
I’m guessing they have only used 1 rod as I can usually get the reading somewhere around 50ohms if I use two 16mm rods.
Click to expand...
If you can get two coupled and driven in to 2.4m depth hopefully enough damp down there for a decent reading. Beware if heavy rain soon as it could mask how dry it is capable of getting in that area.
 
LewisM said:
Well speaking to the site manager he said the tails go up the wall behind a steel plate then over 5cm from the top and bottom of the joists which they are as I saw them when doing the downlights
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Is the plate earthed ?
Is there a Switch fused isolator ?
 
LewisM said:
Probably not
No just a 100A isolator I just said to old matey it's not right but not my name on the cert 😑
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Someone needs to buy them at least a little brush for Christmas.

Rcbo + spd boards are cheap, no real reason to not fit one.
 
There will be 1000s of brand new build houses and flats exactly like this with 10-15 metres of Tails snaking around the fabric of the build in the walls and under the floors. I see it all the time/
No Rcd , No isolator and no way of realistically checking checking if the entire length sits at 50mm+

Code 2 :)
 
A relative was looking at a new build house and we had a look while they were under construction. Had she gone ahead with the purchase, one of the things I planned to do was ask whichever scam the electricians were in why their members issued falsified certificates of compliance - I spotted 2 without looking, one of which would have been the unprotected tails between where they came through the walls from the fugly box up to where the CU was.
 
IMO Metre Tails should be visible for inspection from the meter to consumer unit , I really don't like them snaking 10-15mtrs through the fabric of the building up in the walls and in the floor voids. Just seems such a naff design.
 
Done some investigating this morning to ascertain why the earth reading is so high on the TT system I went to on Friday.

I’m hazarding a guess that this might be why.

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That’s the water pipe to the property and they have done that because they couldn’t (or couldn’t be arsed to try to) get a rod in. Will find out shortly if I can or not.
 
Raptor0014 said:
That’s the water pipe to the property and they have done that because they couldn’t (or couldn’t be arsed to try to) get a rod in. Will find out shortly if I can or not.
Click to expand...

It must go plastic shortly towards the supply side (or at least non-condictive joint(s) somewhere otherwise it ought to be better. Re-label as pipe bond?

Still, see what a proper rod does, but I guess recent rain so not quite a fair comparison? Other than actually being done right, of course....
 
Raptor0014 said:
So on further investigation. There is approx 2m of copper pipe, then there is alkathene back to the main pipe where the water meter is (house was only finished in Nov last year).

Anyway, after banging in 2 x 2.4m rods I’ve got the reading down to this.

And the Zappi works again.

View attachment 108688
Click to expand...
What's in what I assume to be a fused connection unit ? Is that swa in / out or tails ?
 
This is what the cutout would look like if it were PME/TN-C-S

As you can see from the label it says not to connect the earth unless all the requirements are met. This property is in the middle of nowhere and I’m guessing they couldn’t get the Ze low enough to have PME.

IMG_2166.jpeg
 
Raptor0014 said:
It isn’t. I confirmed with the DNO. There’s no earth connected to the cutout.

In order left to right on the earth terminal are: rod, main cu, PV CU, EV CU.
Click to expand...
Do you know what the PSCC was? That sticker normally means PME is fine, but warns you not to just reconnect any old main earth to it without checking it meet the requirement to support the bonds (e.g. 10mm +)

I'm going to make a wild guess here, I think it was an early EV install and whoever did it decided to TT the whole place to make life easier.
 
brianmoooore said:
Are you saying that it's not available, in spite of the sticker?
Click to expand...
No idea if it’s available or not. 🤷🏼‍♂️ They stated the property is not PME and is on TT according to their records. There is no earth in that cutout and one has never been connected

I’d guess the sticker is on all the cutouts regardless and doesn’t determine anything as it states if all the conditions aren’t met then don’t connect the earth to that terminal.

Maybe they’re supposed to pull them off but they probably expect an electrician and anyone authorised to work on the cutout to know what they’re looking at.
 
It's probably available, and the sticker should be there in case circumstances change and the requirements for TNC-S can be met.
I've had to TT supplies brought into a few ramshackle corrugated iron clad farm buildings, where sheets are in contact with the ground and bonding requirements are impossible to meet.
 
I've always taken that notice to mean "PME is possible, but make sure our side of things comply".
Not saying I'm definitely right but they do have another sticker design saying "No earth provided, the earthing type is TT" or words to that effect.
(I've apparently only got a bad photo of one which you can't read!)
1686601622158.png

DPG said:
So do we think that whoever fitted the EV point removed the PME and did the crappy TT?
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I did suspect that, but he says there's never been an earth connection, i.e. the knockout isn't knocked out.
So I'll have to look for somewhere else to be cynical tonight.
 
Raptor0014 said:
No idea if it’s available or not. 🤷🏼‍♂️ They stated the property is not PME and is on TT according to their records. There is no earth in that cutout and one has never been connected

I’d guess the sticker is on all the cutouts regardless and doesn’t determine anything as it states if all the conditions aren’t met then don’t connect the earth to that terminal.

Maybe they’re supposed to pull them off but they probably expect an electrician and anyone authorised to work on the cutout to know what they’re looking at.
Click to expand...
No they apply the stickers individually when fitting cutouts and will fit the appropriate one, have you done a Ze to the terminal under the blanking grommet ?
 
Dave OCD said:
No they apply the stickers individually when fitting cutouts and will fit the appropriate one, have you done a Ze to the terminal under the blanking grommet ?
Click to expand...

No I didn’t as it hasn’t ever had one connected. So didn’t touch anything on the cutout.

I’ll be back there in August as they want a circuit running for aircon. So will have a look then. But odd that the DNO didn’t mention it was available. They just said their records show it’s TT. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Only other thing I can think is they never connected one as there’s quite a decent solar and battery setup (in terms of generation and storage) so maybe they did it to go full island mode and not rely on the distributor earth. But that’s just a pluck out of thin air guess.
 
Anyway, well done on the earth rods!
It's not your fault if you got someone following company policy to deny all existence of ever having provided an earth to anything, anywhere. They once told me that a lead cable that had a damaged braid hanging off it had never been TNS. Thanks to this forum I had the reply ready. "Ok, no problem, but I'm sure you'll agree that it's extraneous and needs bonding....". Long silence. Then "We'll send someone out".
 
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