Discuss Exposed copper wire under the floorboards after rewire in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

JanWilson

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I have just had my house fully rewired. I lifted a few of the loose floorboards to clean and noticed at junctions there is a lot of exposed copper wire. Is this normal or even safe? Exposed copper wire under the floorboards after rewire IMG_20220120_184645_326 - EletriciansForums.net ī
 
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loz2754

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That is totally not good. First of all, in a complete rewire, there should not be any need for joints under the floor.
Secondly, any joints have to be made with all the terminals completely enclosed in a suitable box.
Third, the bare copper wires are circuit protective conductors and should be covered in green/yellow sleeving.

I would be seeking some sort of redress.
 

7029 dave

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Exposed wires, should be housed in a joint box/ enclosure, choc blocks are dated wagos would be my choice, no sleeved earth conductors, my advice would be to get them back.
Is the company in an approved CPS (competent persons scheme)
 
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JanWilson

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totally unacceptable bodge. did they arrive on horseback? have you paid them in full? andwhat other horrors might there be lurking?
Thank you for your response, they have just sent out their invoice....... I found other areas similar. Can I ask, does a full rewire have to be passed by Building Control? and would it be standard to request they come and look at the job if I have concerns? Thanks so much for your help.
 
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JanWilson

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That is totally not good. First of all, in a complete rewire, there should not be any need for joints under the floor.
Secondly, any joints have to be made with all the terminals completely enclosed in a suitable box.
Third, the bare copper wires are circuit protective conductors and should be covered in green/yellow sleeving.

I would be seeking some sort of redress.
Thank you for your response, any advice is really helpful.
 

Lucien Nunes

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To expand. The bare copper is not correct but is not the most serious problem. The bare conductor is the CPC (earth) core and should be sleeved for identification purposes. However it is unlikely to be live or dangerous to touch. The first concern is that junctions between cables must be installed in suitable purpose-made enclosures, so that you only see the grey outer sheath of the cable entering, not the blue and brown cores nor the connectors joining them. Leaving those exposed is unacceptable as they are not mechanically secure nor protected against being touched.

'The second concern is that 'work' of that standard, as hinted at above, indicates a general disregard of both the regulations and accepted practice, even if it does not present an immediate threat to life. You just don't do it like that (although it's certainly not the first time nor will it be the last.) Also as mentioned above, hidden joints are undesirable and usually a sign of bad planning or damaged cables. They are often a sign of modifications to existing wiring; in normal circumstances they should not be found in new work, as there are usually better ways to arrange things so that all connections are made inside fittings where they are accessible.
 
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JanWilson

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To expand. The bare copper is not correct but is not the most serious problem. The bare conductor is the CPC (earth) core and should be sleeved for identification pusrposes, however it should not be live or dangerous to touch. But all junctions between cables must be installed in suitable purpose-made enclosures, so that you only see the grey outer sheath of the cable entering, not the blue and brown cores nor the connectors joining them. Leaving those exposed is unacceptable as they are not mechanically secure nor protected against being touched.

'Work' of that standard, as hinted at above, indicates a general disregard of both the regulations and accepted practice, even if it does not present an immediate threat to life. You just don't do it like that (although it's certainly not the first time nor will it be the last.) And also as mentioned above, hidden joints are undesirable and usually a sign of bad planning or damaged cables. They are often a sign of modifications to existing wiring; in normal circumstances the should not be found in new work as there are usually better ways to arrange things, so that all connections are made inside fittings where they are accessible.
Thank you, this is so helpful. I don't really understand electrical installations but as somebody who is used to seeing houses slightly deconstructed for refurb purposes this doesn't look as I would expect. Any further advice from anybody reading these threads is really useful. Thanks!
 

James

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Thank you for your response, they have just sent out their invoice....... I found other areas similar. Can I ask, does a full rewire have to be passed by Building Control? and would it be standard to request they come and look at the job if I have concerns? Thanks so much for your help.
from the one photo you have posted, i have a mental image of the guy's that did this and it is not good.

did they have free reign to remove plaster etc. to drop cables to light switches and other fittings?

Before the invoice is paid, email them with a list of your concerns so far.
are they a member of a scheme like nappit or niceic? they should be otherwise they will find it hard to get part p of building regs adhered to.

did you have any form of quote for the work detailing what was to be done and for how much?

from the single picture it is clear that they have not adhered to the letter or the spirit of the regulations
some more pictures would be great and the collective team will let you know just how bad it is.
 
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JanWilson

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from the one photo you have posted, i have a mental image of the guy's that did this and it is not good.

did they have free reign to remove plaster etc. to drop cables to light switches and other fittings?

Before the invoice is paid, email them with a list of your concerns so far.
are they a member of a scheme like nappit or niceic? they should be otherwise they will find it hard to get part p of building regs adhered to.

did you have any form of quote for the work detailing what was to be done and for how much?

from the single picture it is clear that they have not adhered to the letter or the spirit of the regulations
some more pictures would be great and the collective team will let you know just how bad it is.
Thank you James. I will post more pictures tomorrow. I have just finished clearing up after eight days of mess and in answer to your question, yes, sadly they have removed plaster, dropped wires and replaced everything. I bought my childhood home from my mother who had to go into a home as she has dementia - they knew this. I feel as though they have wrecked her house. Very sad.
 

James

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For the time being, DO NOT PAY THE BILL.

I have a horrible feeling that when we see the rest of the pictures the advice may well be to involve trading standards.
If they are a member of a scheme then there should be some redress available from them.

We await your next batch of pictures and hope that it is not as bad as i fear it may be.
 

westward10

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The first part of the complaints process is to approach this contractor with what you have found to seek a resolution however I wouldn't want them anywhere near my electrics as what they have done is disgraceful. If no success approach the NICEIC with the evidence however the work is so bad they may address this without you approaching the contractor.
 
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JanWilson

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For the time being, DO NOT PAY THE BILL.

I have a horrible feeling that when we see the rest of the pictures the advice may well be to involve trading standards.
If they are a member of a scheme then there should be some redress available from them.

We await your next batch of pictures and hope that it is not as bad as i fear it may be.
Thank you - worryingly they left my job to start another 'full rewire' on another property bigger than mine, so they claimed.
 
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JanWilson

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The first part of the complaints process is to approach this contractor with what you have found to seek a resolution however I wouldn't want them anywhere near my electrics as what they have done is disgraceful. If no success approach the NICEIC with the evidence however the work is so bad they may address this without you approaching the contractor.
Thank you, this is really helpful. After receiving the invoice this evening - I paid 50% deposit upfront unfortunately - I sent them the image and a list of other concerns, they have not responded as yet.
 
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Thank you for your response. I believe the main contractor is a member of NICEIC

Have you checked on the NICEIC website that they are actually a member? Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there that claim to be part of especially NICEIC as its the most recognised competent persons scheme however they are not.. If they are not then you could be in a world of pain and I would involve trading standards..
 

Dustydazzler

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Really gets my goat when scam vetted electricians do this kind of work on people homes. I am seeing more and more sh!t work these days done by so called cpc scam vetted installers.

In the last 6 months alone I have ripped out 2 almost new boards which were fitted by scam registered electricians as the workmanship was so bad it was easier to rip the crap out and start again

Rant Over
 
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JanWilson

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Have you checked on the NICEIC website that they are actually a member? Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there that claim to be part of especially NICEIC as its the most recognised competent persons scheme however they are not.. If they are not then you could be in a world of pain and I would involve trading standards..
I'm now unsure whether the contractor is NICEIC registered, the reason I chose him was because he seemed knowledgeable and told me I would be issued with an electrical safety certificate stating the house had undergone a full rewire. Can I ask you, what makes a contractor eligible to issue electrical safety certificates and are these logged with Building Control, or some other body once issued? Thanks in advance

He states on his advertising 'We are fully 18th Edition compliant and test & Inspection qualified.'
 

timhoward

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Can I ask you, what makes a contractor eligible to issue electrical safety certificates
This comes as a surprise to many, but no qualification is required to issue a certificate, only requirement is that the person is deemed to be "skilled". The correct term is Electrical Installation Certificate by the way.
(If you receive one saying Electrical Installation Condition Report then that is used when inspecting an installation, and should not be used for work just undertaken)
and are these logged with Building Control, or some other body once issued? Thanks in advance
Certain works need to be notified to building control. These include changing a consumer unit and installing a new circuit. A rewire is most definitely in this territory. This is completely a separate to certification, the contractor must belong to a CPS (like NICEIC or Napit) and the scheme has a way for them to notify building control about the work. The building control people don't get to see the electrical installation certificate.

I'm now unsure whether the contractor is NICEIC registered
You can check for membership of all the CPS schemes in one go here:


Finding out whether the contractor is in one or not is quite an important first step.
 

Rockingit

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Apart from shockingly bad workmanship, I smell a rat, here. If you’ve yet to start the redecorating then I wouldn’t - I’ve a suspicion that any electrical inspector will find a catalogue of errors in what they’ve done. As to the advertising description, 18th edition and testing qualified, that just smacks of what we often refer to on here as a short course wonder - someone who has undertaken the minimum amount of desk based training possible in the belief that it gives them the experience to claim they’re an electrician. Certainly don’t pay any more money, get a genuine known reputable electrician to take a look over it (there are many on here in your area) and go from there. If they ARE a member of an accredited scheme (NICEIC, Napit, others) then register a complaint with the scheme and if they’re not then use Trading Standards.
 

ipf

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For the time being, DO NOT PAY THE BILL.

I have a horrible feeling that when we see the rest of the pictures the advice may well be to involve trading standards.
If they are a member of a scheme then there should be some redress available from them.
If they are falsely claiming to be NICEIC registered, the NICEIC would be the ones to contact.......they don't consider 'taking their name in vain' a minor issue, especially with such blatant evidence so easily available.
 

littlespark

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Can we get more photos?

A picture of the consumer unit showing the circuit breakers will give us a good idea.

You said they left to start another job…. Was your job complete at this time?

There are a few members of the forum near Liverpool that could give it a quick once- over to help catalogue any issues.
 

telectrix

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I'd be happy to visit and assess the installation for you, then advise on the best way forward.meanwhile, as others have said. don'tpay them anymore money until the installation has been independently checked. This would probablycostyou around £100 - £150, but that could be negotiated from the balance, alongwith the costs for remedial works if you don't want them back.
 
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JanWilson

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I'd be happy to visit and assess the installation for you, then advise on the best way forward.meanwhile, as others have said. don'tpay them anymore money until the installation has been independently checked. This would probablycostyou around £100 - £150, but that could be negotiated from the balance, alongwith the costs for remedial works if you don't want them back.
Thank you so much. I may call upon you however I have just spoken to the professional body who he is a member of and they have advised me not to let anybody touch it at this stage in case he offloads responsibility. They have advised I now make a formal complaint, which I am about to do. However, I keep discovering more suspect work and will upload more images today. Can you advise if you think I am going to have to have the whole lot redone?

Stripping wallpaper in my kitchen today in preparation for plastering, I discovered this......
 

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telectrix

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Thank you so much. I may call upon you however I have just spoken to the professional body who he is a member of and they have advised me not to let anybody touch it at this stage in case he offloads responsibility. They have advised I now make a formal complaint, which I am about to do. However, I keep discovering more suspect work and will upload more images today. Can you advise if you think I am going to have to have the whole lot redone?

Stripping wallpaper in my kitchen today in preparation for plastering, I discovered this......
at first sight thatlooks OK>the cable is in line horizontally with the socket, and so it is compliant with prescribed zones. capping or tubing is advantageous in some ways, but not obligatory in a chase.
 
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JanWilson

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at first sight thatlooks OK>the cable is in line horizontally with the socket, and so it is compliant with prescribed zones. capping or tubing is advantageous in some ways, but not obligatory in a chase.
Thank you very much for your help and advice. The wire is sitting proud of the wall plaster so will be sticking out of the wall after plastering - unless the plasterer puts a very thick layer of plaster onto the wall. I understood wires should be buried into the wall...? Also there appears to be another section of wire folded down over the main section with a nail in it, this also sticks out, is this ok to do?
 

Dustydazzler

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Thank you very much for your help and advice. The wire is sitting proud of the wall plaster so will be sticking out of the wall after plastering - unless the plasterer puts a very thick layer of plaster onto the wall. I understood wires should be buried into the wall...? Also there appears to be another section of wire folded down over the main section with a nail in it, this also sticks out, is this ok to do?
For a decent plaster finish the cable should be about 5mm beneath the surface of the wall. Then filled up with filler ready for the thin plaster top finish

That cable is too proud and will need chopping in a bit more
 

Megawatt

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Thank you for your response, they have just sent out their invoice....... I found other areas similar. Can I ask, does a full rewire have to be passed by Building Control? and would it be standard to request they come and look at the job if I have concerns? Thanks so much for your help.
You paid for a full rewire which means wire from point A to point B with no splices
 

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