SE48B250 KQ16 TP WAY 250 type B DIST
THX
THX
Must be a loose connection if the busbar is buzzing
If I replace the main switch which is a SE 125SW3L switch disconnector with a 125 a Mccb I can come straight of the bus bar to the dist board?
lolMust be a loose connection if the busbar is buzzing
You are not going to be able to do that.
Why
Main switches for those boards are 125A, 160A, 200A or 250A and none offer circuit protection they are 60947-3 switch disconnectors. Off hand I am not certain if you can get a 60947-2 which offers circuit protection, if you can it will be the higher rated devices and not 125A.
D
Darkwood
You have led a confusing conversation here, I was under the impression it was already kitted out with a 250amp disconnector but it sounds like you have a standard incomer.
Yes!.. these boards can be upgraded with various incoming devices, you will have to find out the lowest rated version, 100amp I think ...see here http://www2.schneider-electric.com/resources/sites/SCHNEIDER_ELECTRIC/content/live/FAQS/141000/FA141814/en_US/SE8386-RTI Catalogue_MAY_2015.pdf
If you go for the upgrade kit it will probably come complete with expansion box and you'll have to fit it all, it can be very confusing and puzzling if you have never done one as the instructions are pictorial and worse than Ikea for been easy to follow, the kit will just be as expensive as the whole board itself but your saving on tail sizes, switch fuse unit and labour so should work out better, this is the main reason I queried the original diagram you presented as you had this simple option and seems your boss is also clueless to this kind of work. Check with the wholesalers or direct with schnieder that your chosen kit is compatible with your board before getting it as there are many kits out there for there varying ranges.
Yes!.. these boards can be upgraded with various incoming devices, you will have to find out the lowest rated version, 100amp I think ...see here http://www2.schneider-electric.com/resources/sites/SCHNEIDER_ELECTRIC/content/live/FAQS/141000/FA141814/en_US/SE8386-RTI Catalogue_MAY_2015.pdf
If you go for the upgrade kit it will probably come complete with expansion box and you'll have to fit it all, it can be very confusing and puzzling if you have never done one as the instructions are pictorial and worse than Ikea for been easy to follow, the kit will just be as expensive as the whole board itself but your saving on tail sizes, switch fuse unit and labour so should work out better, this is the main reason I queried the original diagram you presented as you had this simple option and seems your boss is also clueless to this kind of work. Check with the wholesalers or direct with schnieder that your chosen kit is compatible with your board before getting it as there are many kits out there for there varying ranges.
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Boss has told me to use 35mm tails into isolator then 35 mm tails to feed the dist board and to use the 125amp switch disconnector.
My boss is telling me the dist- board needs an isolator before it incase someone wants to work on the board they don't need to kill the busbar
My mistake you can get 60947-2 devices, but yes you are giving conflicting information. We all get situations where we have to find a solution to a problem but we do that from experience and consulting colleagues. It is clear you don't have the experience to find that solution and you really need to sit down with your boss who hopefully will guide you or put someone with you to assist. He is being totally irresponsible if he basically shrugs shoulders and tells you to get on with it.
Does this isolator incorporate fuses.
No.its a CED SD 100
Not sure it does that part no comes up as a switch disconnector, a switch fuse disconnector is CED SF100. Look inside and post a pic.
D
Darkwood
The expansion kit is fully insulated and allows for total isolation and access to the circuits without risk, you won't be even taking the lower cover off where the tails connect, I really haven't got a clue where he gets his ideas from but switching the main switch on most boards is often acceptible before removing the cover even though the tails remain live, you should know been domestic, when was the last time you removed a service fuse so you could open the consumer unit up?..Sounds like you have made (with our help) a very good suggestion and he is trying to justify poor design and wasted costs to save face by saying without any regularity backup that the dist board need external isolation after the busbar.
D
Darkwood
If as you say the fuses protecting the busbar are only 100amp then connect straight to your 125 switch disconnector in your DB, if room has been made to upgrade the system ie its all designed with 200amp rated equipment and busbar feed but the fuses have been derated then I suggest fitting a 100amp expansion kit mccb incomer, the separate isolator need not be used in any of the cases and is a waste of time, space and money.
Yes you need to know the fuse sizes in the switch disconnector for the busbar because if they are 100A this is all unnecessary. If they are 200A then the 125A, 60947-3 switch and the supply conductors need circuit protection, I would guess a 100A 60947-2 main switch at the board would break the bank. Your only option is to use that switch although I am confused by its part no but it looks like the solid links could be replaced with fuses. Shame he opted for that cheap nasty option. You need to go back to square one and confirm the fuses protecting the busbar and remember a 200A switch doesn't necessarily mean 200A fuses.
D
Darkwood
I already answered that Lintay, it depends on the busbar overload protection and that its designed to be 100amp without room for upgrade then yes its totally fine to tail direct to your switch disconnector.
PS the last pic showing the 300amp isolator for the busbar does not tell us what fuses are fitted in it but I suspect they are bigger than 100amps, your boss has thus designed it wrong, picked an isolator instead of a switch fuse and made a pigs ear of it all, get a mccb expansion kit for the board, tail it as required to the size you choose and job done, and tell your boss from me that he really shouldn't be taking on work like this if he doesn't understand the regulations around it, ask him what rating the fuses are in the busbar switch/fuse, if he doesn't know then he hasn't spec'd the job properly.
PS the last pic showing the 300amp isolator for the busbar does not tell us what fuses are fitted in it but I suspect they are bigger than 100amps, your boss has thus designed it wrong, picked an isolator instead of a switch fuse and made a pigs ear of it all, get a mccb expansion kit for the board, tail it as required to the size you choose and job done, and tell your boss from me that he really shouldn't be taking on work like this if he doesn't understand the regulations around it, ask him what rating the fuses are in the busbar switch/fuse, if he doesn't know then he hasn't spec'd the job properly.
Are you 100% certain that is the main switch, I assume that isn't at the main intake.
That 300amp main switch is fed from a substation other end of the warehouse
D
Darkwood
@Lintay
Now we have eventually been given the correct info all but the busbar overload protection size, the info we have provided does explain how this should be done given different circumstances of the busbar fusing size.
There is really nothing more that we can add other than to tell your boss that it's beyond your experience and you need assistance, I would also question where the experienced assistance you need would come from because it sounds like your boss also doesn't understand how to design this kind of job let alone the regulations around it so IMHO he shouldn't be taking on such work, usually for me the hardest part to this work is sourcing busbar clamps to suit the old board as under no circumstance should you double up on existing ones, I also assume you haven't been supplied with heatshrink sleeving for the terminations either all of which is how it should be done professionally.
Now we have eventually been given the correct info all but the busbar overload protection size, the info we have provided does explain how this should be done given different circumstances of the busbar fusing size.
There is really nothing more that we can add other than to tell your boss that it's beyond your experience and you need assistance, I would also question where the experienced assistance you need would come from because it sounds like your boss also doesn't understand how to design this kind of job let alone the regulations around it so IMHO he shouldn't be taking on such work, usually for me the hardest part to this work is sourcing busbar clamps to suit the old board as under no circumstance should you double up on existing ones, I also assume you haven't been supplied with heatshrink sleeving for the terminations either all of which is how it should be done professionally.
Just a final shot, that supply cable isn't very big not rated at 300A anyway so I suspect you need to look at the source end to confirm. Probably only 63A
Thx guys my boss had agreed to get rid of the isolator and he's ordered a 100 amp mccb kit which he's still adamant 25 mm tails will be ok?
Where the existing boards were that we ripped out we will be using there old points to connect to the bus bar using bolts and washers.shojld I use 8 mm brass bolts?
Thx again
Where the existing boards were that we ripped out we will be using there old points to connect to the bus bar using bolts and washers.shojld I use 8 mm brass bolts?
Thx again
They should be 35.0 minimum, or 25.0 BS7211.
This expansion kit will it make the dis board longer tryed asking the wholesalers and they don't know! Thx
D
Darkwood
You really need to be asking your boss these questions as oppose to the forum, we are happy to nudge you in the right direction but a step by step guide which your asking for is somewhat abusing our good nature to help, you need to use the appropriate rated busbar clamps that are designed for that busbar system, usually they come in different ratings ie 100amp, 200amp etc, we cannot possible tell you if using the existing is ok as we do not know what has been used and whether they are the official kits or not you want to re-use.
Speak to your boss, if he cannot answer or help you out here, I would politely decline to do the job, he was aware of your experience in the first place, if he drops you on such jobs without the guidance you need or the right kit to do the work then you may want to consider your future options and what you are getting yourself into here, I cannot comment on your circumstances so you may need to just bite the bullet a while and possible look for a company that is willing to support your and train you up in areas you lack experience, mistakes will be made otherwise and sometimes this may put people and property at risk without you realising.
D
Darkwood
You have all the info you require already posted, please help yourself out a little here, I posted a link that shows you the part no's etc of upfront switch gear and expansion kits, if you have any queries ring Scheinder tech' support team, they are very helpful and just explain your inexperience and you have a few questions, and to answer your query, Yes, by the nature of the word 'Expansion' kit, it will indeed make the board longer and needs fitting first before mounting to the framework you intend to fasten to.
You'll need to know the lug hole sizes required to bolt onto the new mccb too while your talking to them, make a list of the part no's you have too so they know exactly what you have.
If that is a Bill busbar I suspect it may have copper bars that you drill to suit.
Mm I will bear it in
G
GMES
How long have you had the stuttering Finger Westy lol
No idea how that happened must have been all this
T
Toneyz
Well done Darkwood go and have a lie down in a dark room now
D
Deleted member 78588
My head is BUZZIN
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