R

Richard Knight

We bought a plot of land over two years ago which had permission passed for holiday chalets. We paid the seller on completion the sum of £3000.00 to lay down electric cable and water pipes to connect us to mains supply. The cable he has installed is roughly 115m from the mains transformer. And it's only 10mm which we are very annoyed with as that is going to seriously limit our electric capabilities.

What is the best case scenario we could expect from 10mm 3 core armored cable from the main fuse in a meter housing next to the transformer and then a 115m run to our property. I believe voltage drop could be a serious issue?

Thanks
 
What was on paper when you handed over your money ? Was there a specified cable size/capacity of supply in amps ?
What is the size of the fuse protecting this cable at the transformer ?
 
What did the supplier/seller state the supply would be?

If there is not rated level you could be up a creek without a paddle.

Are you sure its 10mm? How have you measured it?
 
Yes they have done what they say in the paperwork. Not disputing that, i'm concerned about the usability of it. Which it appears will be inadequate.

I have an option for Scottish Power to lay down 100m of 25mm cable into an existing supply... any ideas on the cost of that, just waiting for a quote.
 
Exactly what are you intending to install in these holiday chalets, and how many were you intending to erect/build?? To be totally honest, this predicament you find yourself in, is of your own making. You don't lay any cable in the ground without first knowing what that cable needs to supply and doing the calculations. So if you haven't done your homework and given the details of the cable size required to the seller, that's not the seller's problem is it??

What's more, you haven't stated whether this new supply is 2 core, 3 core, 4 core or if we're talking about single or a 3 phase supply!! No wonder you're now in a right old pickle.
 
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Exactly what are you intending to install in these holiday chalets, and how many were you intending to erect/build?? To be totally honest, this predicament you find yourself in, is of your own making. You don't lay any cable in the ground without first knowing what that cable needs to supply and doing the calculations. So if you haven't done your homework and given the details of the cable size required to the seller, that's not the seller's problem is it??

a bit harsh. the op bought the land with planning permission already granted. if the seller agreed to install the cable, he should've put in the right size.
 
If your legal paperwork say 10mm you could argue that this refers to the diameter. If it says 100mm2 or equivalent then you're a bit stuck. A 10mm diameter cable would be 78mm2 (nearest standard sizes 70mm2 or 95mm2). 70mm2 would prob meet your needs over this distance depending on the transformer tapping setting and conditions at the feed end etc.
 
a bit harsh. the op bought the land with planning permission already granted. if the seller agreed to install the cable, he should've put in the right size.


As far as i'm aware, planning permission does not require electrical details, only the overall details of covered Sq metre age and type of construction etc. All planning permissions, are subject to actual building drawings being accepted prior to building notice approval. Come on now, would you leave the size of cable to be installed up to the seller??
 
As far as i'm aware, planning permission does not require electrical details, only the overall details of covered Sq metre age and type of construction etc. All planning permissions, are subject to actual building drawings being accepted prior to building notice approval. Come on now, would you leave the size of cable to be installed up to the seller??

yeah, i agree; i think the buyers have been naive. but it sounds like it was the seller who had the original plans drawn-up and, as such, he would have known exactly what was going to be built. and if he's told the op that he'd put the cable in (for a price), then i'd feel pretty pee'd off if he installed an inappropriately sized cable.

to me, it sounds like the seller saw an opportunity to scam a few quid off the buyer.
 
yeah, i agree; i think the buyers have been naive. but it sounds like it was the seller who had the original plans drawn-up and, as such, he would have known exactly what was going to be built. and if he's told the op that he'd put the cable in (for a price), then i'd feel pretty pee'd off if he installed an inappropriately sized cable.

to me, it sounds like the seller saw an opportunity to scam a few quid off the buyer.

Maybe, but i think the seller has just got an outline planning permission for X amount of chalets based on the the same construction as others locally. I doubt very much if this seller had or has the slightest idea of any of the details of any of the services that this project calls for. lol!!
 
Exactly what are you intending to install in these holiday chalets, and how many were you intending to erect/build?? To be totally honest, this predicament you find yourself in, is of your own making. You don't lay any cable in the ground without first knowing what that cable needs to supply and doing the calculations. So if you haven't done your homework and given the details of the cable size required to the seller, that's not the seller's problem is it??

What's more, you haven't stated whether this new supply is 2 core, 3 core, 4 core or if we're talking about single or a 3 phase supply!! No wonder you're now in a right old pickle.

We own one plot on the development site. There is 8 plots in total. 2 plots were purchased by one party and the owners of these decided to commission Scottish Power to take a 95mm cable (aluminium) from the transformer to feed these two lodges. I believe SP then feed 25mm off this 95mm cable. They have full spec electrics for 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and electric heating. There lodges are around 180m2 in floor area.

We are building one lodge on our own plot that we bought. I believe there is a 11KV transformer on site which 8 plots plan to take supply from (2 have already done the above) I say lodges/chalets but it is actually a timber framed high spec house which we are building. One plot owner has decided to build a small 2 bed chalet though so the 10mm may be sufficient for them as they are half the distance from the mains transformer.

We bought the plot with the agreement the land developer laid the infrastructure and connected us to the mains water and transformer. Hes already wriggling out of the connection for electric saying it is our responsibility. If you or anyone else would like to see the clause on this then I can post this on here and I would very much appreciate your advice.

Also for your information he messed up the water supply. The way he did it meant that there was no water pressure during the day time in peak season (tourist area) and the water pipes ran dry. He forced the plot owners to buy into a £12,000 scheme to rectify this. By using a series of break tanks, header tanks and pumps. We are doing our own individual water tank scheme in our property which will fill up fine during the day when demand isn't high or at night time. Really the seller should have rectified this as he sold plots with a water supply and there is not a sufficient water supply to them? And this is why we did our own scheme. The other plot owner who has 2 chalets as mentioned above decided to go with the scheme as they intended to rent theirs out as holiday accommodation and needed a 100% reliable supply.

The 10mm will be fed from a split phase supply from the mast (I am unsure on the size) this then would feed into a 8 way BEMCO box. Which each 10mm three core cable would connect into for each plot. In our case 100m to our plot which I now know is severely inadequate.

To also throw it out there, we bought the plots with SEPA consulted and agreed systems for soak-aways. Our plot has failed the percolation test for this (granted on day when it was record rainfall) we will also have issues with this and more expense for something we bought which was meant to have a agreed system.

We have been naive, and have never undertaken a new build before. We thought the seller had done his research as he implied and everything was adequate. We have 30 years experience in property development and construction so fortunately the rest of the build will be under our control and should go smoothly.
 
Yes they have done what they say in the paperwork. Not disputing that, i'm concerned about the usability of it. Which it appears will be inadequate.

I have an option for Scottish Power to lay down 100m of 25mm cable into an existing supply... any ideas on the cost of that, just waiting for a quote.


If you're thinking of having Scottish Power to lay a supply cable for you, be prepared for some really silly prices/Quotes to drop through your letterbox!! lol!!

Listen, do your homework ''First''!!

....Stage 1 Find an Experienced Qualified Engineer/Electrician that can advise and conduct all the necessary calculations to arrive at a suitably sized cable or cables (parallel supply) among other things.

Stage 2. Get a few quotes for excavation of cable trenching giving detailed requirements for the cable trench, eg depth/width and it's backfill material, levels etc... (provided by the qualified person above)

Stage 2.1. Any cable laying should be supervised by an experienced electrician, if the whole trench/cable laying work is done by a builder or groundworks contractor.... You don't want rips or cuts in the cables PVC sheath which will eventually lead to total corrosion of the steel wire armouring!!

You will then have at least a fighting chance!! lol!!

Something has just sprung to mind. If this cable you paid for, has been laid by a crew of labourers, then you may be in with a good chance of remedial work to be carried out by the seller. Ask an experienced electrician to conduct a sheath test on this installed 10mm cable. I wouldn't mind putting money down, that the sheath has been compromised during installation, and in more than one location too especially if this work was done by general labourers... Well worth a shot and could save you a good chunk of cash too.... lol!!
 
If you're thinking of having Scottish Power to lay a supply cable for you, be prepared for some really silly prices/Quotes to drop through your letterbox!! lol!!

Listen, do your homework ''First''!!

....Stage 1 Find an Experienced Qualified Engineer/Electrician that can advise and conduct all the necessary calculations to arrive at a suitably sized cable or cables (parallel supply) among other things.

Stage 2. Get a few quotes for excavation of cable trenching giving detailed requirements for the cable trench, eg depth/width and it's backfill material, levels etc... (provided by the qualified person above)

Stage 2.1. Any cable laying should be supervised by an experienced electrician, if the whole trench/cable laying work is done by a builder or groundworks contractor.... You don't want rips or cuts in the cables PVC sheath which will eventually lead to total corrosion of the steel wire armouring!!

You will then have at least a fighting chance!! lol!!

Something has just sprung to mind. If this cable you paid for, has been laid by a crew of labourers, then you may be in with a good chance of remedial work to be carried out by the seller. Ask an experienced electrician to conduct a sheath test on this installed 10mm cable. I wouldn't mind putting money down, that the sheath has been compromised during installation, and in more than one location too especially if this work was done by general labourers... Well worth a shot and could save you a good chunk of cash too.... lol!!

Thanks for the advice, we have had a quote from SP for £4k for the laying of 75m of 95mm and 25m of 25mm cable to supply our plot. This includes a £2k payment to the plot owners who are currently fed from the 95mm. This could be wavered by them... or if we waited another 2 years we wouldn't have to pay it as 5 years would have passed. So in my opinion this solution is very attractive. We would organise the excavation and SP engineers would supply and install the cable. They then guarantee this cable and we don't have to worry about anything going wrong in the future.
 
This project seems to have totally changed from the threads OP, where it sounded very much like a plot of land with planning permission for holiday chalets!! Now were talking about full blown timber framed houses, which is a whole new ball game altogether!!


If the developer has failed to provide services mentioned in your's and other owners land contract's then you bloody well sue them. I don't understand all of you, letting this developer wash his hands of their contractual responsibilities.
 
In simple terms he sold them as woodland plots with outline permission for "holiday chalets" you can live in them all year round, but can't have them as your primary residence. They still need to meet all the building standards. We made a new application for planning permission due to our sloping site. We are dug into the hillside with a large retaining wall and were lucky to get a 2 story dwelling passed. The people who have 2 holiday chalets stuck with the original outline planning but still had to meet the building regs etc.

He sold the plots with water mains and electric "available"on site. £3k extra to lay down and connect to this. Could I post up the clause about connections and seek your advice on how it reeds and what you think his responsibilities are.

Thanks
 
Maybe, but i think the seller has just got an outline planning permission for X amount of chalets based on the the same construction as others locally.
I doubt very much if this seller had or has the slightest idea of any of the details of any of the services that this project calls for.
lol!!


well, judging by the size of cable that he's put in, i'd say this is fairly accurate. or, he's a complete chancer who thought he could get away with charging 3 grand for putting in 400 quids' worth of cable.

either way, the fact that he's offering this service (in-lieu of payment), suggests that the op has grounds for some sort of recourse, given that the installed cable doesn't meet their requirements.


EDIT: sorry '54 - uploaded this post before i saw #21........i agree, sue the bugger!!
 
Hello everyone,

Thanks for your prior help. We are looking at replacing the 10mm cable with three core 25mm armoured cable. The distance will be 150m! What do people think the available amps would be? We are just waiting for electrician calculations.
 
Hello everyone,

Thanks for your prior help. We are looking at replacing the 10mm cable with three core 25mm armoured cable. The distance will be 150m! What do people think the available amps would be? We are just waiting for electrician calculations.

as a rough guess, volt drop on 100m of 25mm, your current would be limited (65A @ 5%VD, 35A @ 3%VD )
 
I think you are going the wrong way round here, you work out how many amps you need and then size the cable to suit. you don't install a cable and then wonder how many amps you can squeeze down it! You'll put yourself back in teh same position you are now!
 

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House supply of 10mm distance from transformer 115m
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