Paid by number of EICR's completed???

[sparkside1]

Hi all

I discussed a similar situation in a previous thread but the topic keeps popping up with testing jobs that I seem to be attracting at the moment.I got offered a job carrying out EICR's for the MOD and the rate of pay was by the property?? In other words, if I don't knock out 4 or 5 a day, I don't make any money. Travelling time in a shared company van is not paid. Is this how the testing indusrty is going?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Hi all

I discussed a similar situation in a previous thread but the topic keeps popping up with testing jobs that I seem to be attracting at the moment.I got offered a job carrying out EICR's for the MOD and the rate of pay was by the property?? In other words, if I don't knock out 4 or 5 a day, I don't make any money. Travelling time in a shared company van is not paid. Is this how the testing indusrty is going?

sack it fella...

drive by territory is this malarkey....

 

[Octopus]

Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Who is the POOR QS who will have to counter sign them??

 

[camerabloke]

shared van? more like shared horse

 

[GMES]

The only way to do 4-5 tests a day is if your filling the certs while your travelling in the van to the job, don't sell your soul to the devil mate
Tell em to shove it.

 

[jaypp]

4/5 properties per day including paperwork? Who and how have they led people to believe this or even a fraction of this is possible? Even if visual only I'd struggle to make a living!

 

[Octopus]

OK, I'll ask the awkward question...... under which scheme is this supposed to get signed off??

 

[GLENNSPARK]

OK, I'll ask the awkward question...... under which scheme is this supposed to get signed off??

OK, i`ll ask the awkward question...... under which scheme do you have to be a member off to carry out EICRs?

 

[Badged01]

.....I got offered a job carrying out EICR's for the MOD and the rate of pay was by the property?? ....

If its one light circuit and one radial socket circuit per property and they are next door to each other, plus you have the last EICR that was 'clean', you might be able to crack it in a day ....

 

[Octopus]

OK, i`ll ask the awkward question...... under which scheme do you have to be a member off to carry out EICRs?

Alright smart xrse! The point I was getting at is the company doing the EICR' is more than likely to be a member of a scheme.

 

[wozz]

Was 4-5 a day actually mentioned? Or are you guessing?

Mod property I'm thinking houses? small basic housing in rows identical layouts maintained to a reasonable standard. Possibly some voids. Grouped together. A few a day is possible in the case above.

Obviously im I guessing but there's more than one way to look at what the op has said.

Not on defending it either the testing game is all about numbers unfortunately. And the qs system does nothing to improve things.

 

[PEG]

4 or 5 a day? You could do it if it was 5 consecutively pitched tents with a single switched class 2 LED in each.....personally i would want my doctor to save one patient a week,not see a thousand...walk,or they will bring you down to their level :thinking:

 

[Engineer54]

Was 4-5 a day actually mentioned? Or are you guessing?

Mod property I'm thinking houses? small basic housing in rows identical layouts maintained to a reasonable standard. Possibly some voids. Grouped together. A few a day is possible in the case above.

Obviously im I guessing but there's more than one way to look at what the op has said.

Not on defending it either the testing game is all about numbers unfortunately. And the qs system does nothing to improve things.

Really?? I'd be thinking it's going to take around half of that day, just to complete all the paperwork on 5 housing property EICR's.... So you reckon you could inspect and test a small house in say an hour (if were talking an 8 hour day, or a bit more for a 9 hour day) ??? Think On....!!!

 

[wozz]

I mention 'a few' meaning less than 5 and your post above mentions '5'. i didnt say five a day was possible.

Also when i was a electrician i never worked a 8 hour day always more. Lunch on the go. No travel time needed.

Ive thought on and in the case i mention making assumptions i would say a few a day is possible. If you want me to put a figure on it in the case ive mentioned 3 a day is possible to a fair standard.

 

[sparkymalarky]

Just had a brief scan through this. Bit more detail needed on what exactly these ''properties entail''. Do you have anyone to help you with the testing and how are you recorded results and compiling the EICR e.g someone doing the running about collecting results, paperwork or laptop etc? all these variables make a huge difference.

 

[dawsirn]

I used to PIR's for the MOD on a housing estate full of identical voids mostly 2/3 beds. Nice easy work and you could do 3 at a push in a day but 2 a day was a lot more comfortable. But talk about boring....

 

[Lagentium]

It's utter *removed* is this, it's not possible to do 4 or 5 EICRs a day correctly, it's like someone telling me to get to London in an hour then telling me to drive at 200mph when I look at them with a quizzical look.

 

[growler]

I tested 16 x 2 bed flats in a day last week ! Kerching !!!

 

[Octopus]

I tested 16 x 2 bed flats in a day last week ! Kerching !!!

Not worth the paper they are written on.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Just had a brief scan through this. Bit more detail needed on what exactly these ''properties entail''. Do you have anyone to help you with the testing and how are you recorded results and compiling the EICR e.g someone doing the running about collecting results, paperwork or laptop etc? all these variables make a huge difference.

so i guess if its a so called `visual report`...then it all adds up nicely....does it?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

It's utter bollox is this, it's not possible to do 4 or 5 EICRs a day correctly, it's like someone telling me to get to London in an hour then telling me to drive at 200mph when I look at them with a quizzical look.

thought i`d made it clear at #2..

still trundled along nicely has this one though...which really demostrates the depth & understanding of this forum.


sort it quick Dan....or i`m off....

 

[Engineer54]

I mention 'a few' meaning less than 5 and your post above mentions '5'. i didnt say five a day was possible.

Also when i was a electrician i never worked a 8 hour day always more. Lunch on the go. No travel time needed.

Ive thought on and in the case i mention making assumptions i would say a few a day is possible. If you want me to put a figure on it in the case ive mentioned 3 a day is possible to a fair standard.

What do you mean by ''When i was an electrician'' ...are you not an electrician now then??

If you managed to complete 2 full EICR's in a day, to a fair (acceptable) standard i'd be impressed!! Oh, and a ''few'' as far as i'm concerned, has always meant 4 or more (but more often than not 4) to my generation!!

So let's say 4 EICR's in a day, including all the paperwork, .....even if all the installations were perfect, with no reporting of any code violations or need for any documented observations or recommendations etc, you'd still be peeing well and truly in the wind....

 

[wozz]

In my current role I don't do electrical work like I did in the past is what I was getting at.

As as far as I'm aware my generation has never defined the term 'a few' I always found it used in a loose way rather than definitively. can you tell me how to find out how generations define things?

So no matter what size of installation we are talking about here anymore than two is impossible to a reasonable standard?

I made a few assumptions in my original post , I was trying to show a different side to the story that not all installs are the same some are easier to test, some are empty, some are well maintained with decent record keeping, which has been collaborated by another member, but let's not stop that get in the way of a good old witch hunt and moan.

thou shall not carry out more than two Eicrs in a day.

Feel free reed to pick bits out of the above to try and belittle me if you please, shame as I have found your posts informative over the last couple of years.

 

[jaypp]

In my current role I don't do electrical work like I did in the past is what I was getting at.

As as far as I'm aware my generation has never defined the term 'a few' I always found it used in a loose way rather than definitively. can you tell me how to find out how generations define things?

So no matter what size of installation we are talking about here anymore than two is impossible to a reasonable standard?

I made a few assumptions in my original post , I was trying to show a different side to the story that not all installs are the same some are easier to test, some are empty, some are well maintained with decent record keeping, which has been collaborated by another member, but let's not stop that get in the way of a good old witch hunt and moan.

thou shall not carry out more than two Eicrs in a day.

Feel free reed to pick bits out of the above to try and belittle me if you please, shame as I have found your posts informative over the last couple of years.

A 'few', as I see it, is more than this but, as Mr Daniels said, 'not a lot'!!:smile5:

 

[Engineer54]

In my current role I don't do electrical work like I did in the past is what I was getting at. Fair enough

As as far as I'm aware my generation has never defined the term 'a few' I always found it used in a loose way rather than definitively. can you tell me how to find out how generations define things? It's what i've known from my earliest school days

So no matter what size of installation we are talking about here anymore than two is impossible to a reasonable standard? Well i've worked on a few MOD locations in Germany and if it's not barrack type single rooms, the accommodation will generally be 2 and 3 bedroom apartments or houses....

I made a few assumptions in my original post , I was trying to show a different side to the story that not all installs are the same some are easier to test, some are empty, some are well maintained with decent record keeping, which has been collaborated by another member, but let's not stop that get in the way of a good old witch hunt and moan. If you're talking about the single room barrack type accommodation fine, ....but i don't think that was what the OP of this thread was referring to, he was almost certainly talking about married accommodation and other associated MOD buildings. Don't really care what anyone thinks, I know, you are not going to be able to inspect and test a 2 or more bedroomed flat or house in a couple or so hours, empty or otherwise, End Of!!

thou shall not carry out more than two Eicrs in a day. As far as 2 and 3 bedroomed houses and flat's go, Yes!! As i say, i'd be impressed if you managed to complete two EICR's to a satisfactory standard, and complete all the related paperwork....

Feel free reed to pick bits out of the above to try and belittle me if you please, shame as I have found your posts informative over the last couple of years. I'm not trying to have a pop or trying to belittle you... To my mind i'm just stating what to me is blatantly obvious.

Far too many headless companies these days are putting electricians in a catch 22 situation, asking them to do the impossible, which will knowingly have them cutting some serious corners in order for them to meet unrealistic company work schedules....

 

[wozz]

Sorry if my post came across as ****ty that wasn't the way it was intended, bad day and night.

We are both now guessing at the size of the places he is being asked to test, that I suppose was my point I've seen some extremely small installs and what the op is on about could be inline with this, he may not be , has he actually been back? As I asked pages ago did they actually mention a figure or was he guessing? We may never know.

Also so my point was these are not going to be your average premises, usually installed to a good standard and maintained to a good standard, and almost certainly no DIY additions. Likely to be a lot of repetition so with a good pair you will know your jobs and where to head to so will become highly proficient at it, include a bit of IT in there with auto fill. As another said will be very boring.

Im in no way defending paid by eicr route, I blame the qs system for a lot and I will again, the person carrying out the testing feels their worked will be checked sort of supervised the person in the office usually doesn't care as they don't see that they have any responsibility.

The testing game is usually a thankless one, where a customer often feels they don't get much for their money some companies will use the qs system and semi skilled labour it's a very bad mix in terms of quality.

 

[sparkymalarky]

so i guess if its a so called `visual report`...then it all adds up nicely....does it?

Don't even try to suggest that I am not thorough in my job. I have been solely carrying out inspection and testing for the last 8 years and I DON'T do cutting corners. So less of it. I merely meant to ask if they were empty or currently vacant etc. so many things to be considered. furnishings in the way of accessories, HMO with residents in, number of circuits, age of property, environment etc.

 

[UNG]

Was 4-5 a day actually mentioned? Or are you guessing?

Mod property I'm thinking houses? small basic housing in rows identical layouts maintained to a reasonable standard. Possibly some voids. Grouped together. A few a day is possible in the case above.

Obviously im I guessing but there's more than one way to look at what the op has said.

Not on defending it either the testing game is all about numbers unfortunately. And the qs system does nothing to improve things.

You only have to look at the PAT when talking ridiculous numbers and this now appears to be happening with EICR's

I mention 'a few' meaning less than 5 and your post above mentions '5'. i didnt say five a day was possible.

Also when i was a electrician i never worked a 8 hour day always more. Lunch on the go. No travel time needed.

Ive thought on and in the case i mention making assumptions i would say a few a day is possible. If you want me to put a figure on it in the case ive mentioned 3 a day is possible to a fair standard.

It's dangerous to make assumptions when testing just because properties are the same it doesn't mean they are

I tested 16 x 2 bed flats in a day last week ! Kerching !!!

In your dreams may be assuming a 12 hour day that's 45 minutes a flat and probably more realistically 30 minutes a flat without stopping for a brew or a dump unless you can manage both while testing

Far too many headless companies these days are putting electricians in a catch 22 situation, asking them to do the impossible, which will knowingly have them cutting some serious corners in order for them to meet unrealistic company work schedules....

All part of the ongoing race to the bottom IMO with some electricians not realising the implications of putting their signature to something that may come back to haunt them in a law court

Also so my point was these are not going to be your average premises, usually installed to a good standard and maintained to a good standard, and almost certainly no DIY additions. Likely to be a lot of repetition so with a good pair you will know your jobs and where to head to so will become highly proficient at it, include a bit of IT in there with auto fill. As another said will be very boring.

And complacency will set in and the temptation to make up a few figures will creep in and then do an extra EICR to get a bonus on the day and before you know it with the temptation of an extra few quid you end up with meaningless EICR's

Im in no way defending paid by eicr route, I blame the qs system for a lot and I will again, the person carrying out the testing feels their worked will be checked sort of supervised the person in the office usually doesn't care as they don't see that they have any responsibility.

The testing game is usually a thankless one, where a customer often feels they don't get much for their money some companies will use the qs system and semi skilled labour it's a very bad mix in terms of quality.

The QS system in a lot of companies has been a rubber stamp exercise for years IMO as one person would struggle to cross check even a small percentage of the work carried out so a lot will fall through the net

Testing is one of those necessary evils that costs money with no tangible product other than a certificate so from a customers point of view it is difficult to see the quality of what you are buying when you highlight this to customers most will say I don't do technical and don't have a clue what you are on about

I would have thought somebody in the MOD knows what they are buying and will see from the dates and signatures on the certs the quality of what they have got at the end

 

[Engineer54]

I would have thought somebody in the MOD knows what they are buying and will see from the dates and signatures on the certs the quality of what they have got at the end.

From what i can make of it, the MOD is having it's own cut back problems, so like everywhere else it's down to quantity rather than quality!! lol!!

I can remember a time when the MOD wouldn't of dreamed of contracting out testing and inspection contracts to it's own properties, it would have been an in-house affair!!

 

[Badged01]

I can remember a time when the MOD wouldn't of dreamed of contracting out testing and inspection contracts to it's own properties, it would have been an in-house affair!!

Apart from the money aspect its also about shifting risk!

They have an external 'competent' electrical professional who has signed an EICR giving a "Satisfactory" grade so if anything should go wrong they can point the finger elsewhere ....

 

[Engineer54]

Apart from the money aspect its also about shifting risk!

They have an external 'competent' electrical professional who has signed an EICR giving a "Satisfactory" grade so if anything should go wrong they can point the finger elsewhere ....

From what i remember of the MOD, they were a faceless bureaucracy, that answered to virtually no-one!! lol!!

 

[R G]

I am so glad I do my own work and not be dictated to on how long or how many jobs you can do in a day ,,,

Ive seen a few MOD jobs being permanently advertised through outside maintenance companies , and they are all paying according to how much work you cover , I enquired and the pay is unrealistic to say the least , must be why they are permanently advertising,,,,

 

[Fuzzy165]

I have recently been asked to do the same for one of the large Royal boroughs of London. 4-5 per day to make a day rate. All occupied properties, you can't inspect most accessories as they are blocked by furniture you can't move on your own. At best I managed 3 per day. I jacked it after 3 days. I've just heard that one of the other "testers" (jesters?!) was completing 6 per day. He has however just been found out though. He missed a damaged DSSO that had live ends sticking out of it, 50mm from the frame of a metal bunkbed, C1 failure! They are now having to re-inspect all of his work and there is now talk of paying day rates rather than per test! About time. There is a good reason to complete EICR's, to protect tenants by ensuring electrical safety but it's pointless if the testing is not done properly.

 

[UNG]

Anybody know how much these companies get paid per EICR that needs the guy on the ground to do 4 or 5 a day so he gets a decent wage

 

[Meggerman]

Anybody know how much these companies get paid per EICR that needs the guy on the ground to do 4 or 5 a day so he gets a decent wage

I charge £150 for an EICR to letting agent, so I am quite happy to finish at lunchtime or do another one if I want a good day financially. These moronic form filling EICR companies pay about £30 a house and you may also have a E7 DB aswell to test. Like I have said on previous threads all they do is just Ze, PFC, global I/R at best (or just write >200) and Zs. Any difficult ones get made up. And the best thing is the company can pass all responsibility to the mug doing them!! Brilliant.

 

[Badged01]

I charge £150 for an EICR to letting agent......

Your doing well! £50 seems to be about the norm in S. Wales ...... you must be doing posh areas

 

[Meggerman]

Your doing well! £50 seems to be about the norm in S. Wales ...... you must be doing posh areas

Admittedly it isn't the core of my workload, only a couple a month usually. I'm very meticulous on my EICR's. I see it as 6 hours work including writing up. Anything less ain't worth doing

 

[Engineer54]

Your doing well! £50 seems to be about the norm in S. Wales ...... you must be doing posh areas

Haha, ...Come on, now tell us your hourly rate??

 

[ipf]

Haha, ...Come on, now tell us your hourly rate??

ONE...........EICR that is....:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Englishman]

Depending on whether or not you're correcting any c1s of 2s, and the proximity of properties, two a day is manageable.

I do a lot for a housing association but also do all remedials (except c3s) and upgrades as well at void stage so am rarely under pressure as far as time restraints go, but then again, our head of electrical and QS will not allow any time constraints put on us at all because it compromises safety. Exactly how it should be IMO.