Discuss Question regarding signing off 32a ring circuit with broken CPC ring continuity in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Don’t sign it off.

Builder has made a boo boo. Rawlplug hole drilled through a cable would be my bet.
Assuming it was all ok when you tested, and now it’s not.... must be something the builder has done.

You can work out which leg is down. Look for drill holes in the path of where you think the cable is.
You might be able to find it visually, and fit a joint box in the back of a cupboard maybe?

I wouldn’t split it into 2 radials unless there’s very little load. Kitchens will have kettles toasters etc without washing machines, dryers etc which could be in a utility room on a different circuit.
I disagreed LS reason by not having a continuous cpc It's not a RFC is it?
 
I disagreed LS reason by not having a continuous cpc It's not a RFC is it?

I said NOT to sign it off, Pete. The fault needs to be found and rectified before signing off, at builders expense IF it was shown that it was the builders fault. As in one of his screws through the cable route.

I don’t know what you disagree with?
 
I said NOT to sign it off, Pete. The fault needs to be found and rectified before signing off, at builders expense IF it was shown that it was the builders fault. As in one of his screws through the cable route.

I don’t know what you disagree with?
I should read the post properly LS sorry my bad
 
I'd go with the turning it into two radials, with the 'damaged leg' being isolated.

Doesn't matter who has caused the damage, the home owner is not going to be best pleased with their newly installed kitchen being taken apart to replace the cable. Inform the client of the issue and possible fix, and let them decide between the two viable options.

Two radials for a kitchen would be no different to one RFC, if one believes app 15.
 
True, but the builder could, and probably will deny any involvement, or any responsibility, so to say the builder will pay, is being a trifle preemptive.
Shouldn’t be to hard to prove who’s done the damage Pete, not saying the builder will pay,but why should the spark alter his original design especially if its a kitchen rfc and he doesn’t know where the break is yet,when it can be rectified? My point is the customer needs making aware and advised to take it up with the builder.....
 
What were you IR readings before and after Bob the builder fitted the kitchen?

If you can trace where the cpc is broken, you may be able to prove without any doubt who damaged the cpc, then you can point this out to the home owner and say you can’t sign it off until it’s repaired.
 
It would be nice if the OP joined in regarding the broken CPC, is there any junction boxes on this ring or is it completely all new? From experience when a cable has been screwed it has caught one of the other conductors. The OP needs to find exactly where the break is first ( a cable come out hopefully will be the cause) and what loads are likely to be on each leg.
 
I had this twice before where the same kitchen fitter on two different jobs drilled straight through a t&e and unbelievably took out the cpc and neutral first time and just cpc broken second time

First thing I used to do was mark out cupboard positions and where we'd be chasing cables in , followed by getting the fitter to ok it.....

First time this prat got away with it
as customer wouldn't let us take a cupboard down even though we showed him all cables disconnected and continuity on one leg and lack of continuity, position of chase and cupboard screws, fitter had altered the layout and not thought about his fixings etc

Fitter thought it was funny and laughed it off saying it was our fault and we should do a better job

Managed to replace cable with a jb above a cupboard and fished cable down capping to socket

Second time I got the long lead and went round the suspect area testing to all the cupboard screws got continuity to 2 screws ,
Customer was a pita awkward type who always gets what they want

but I was actually quite glad of this in the end because he went mad insisting Kitchen cupboards were removed so we could sort it out

Fitter went AWOL wouldn't answer his phone but this guy tracked him down and somehow got him to agree to footing the bill for our rework , repairing the ceiling and making good the chases and decorating plus he had to fit cupboards again
 
I installed a kitchen ring recently. Went back to test after the builders had finished and found that the CPC is broken somewhere inaccessible, everything else tests normal. I’ve got continuity on live conductors, and even with the broken CPC, each socket is connected to the CPC and tests with an acceptable Zs value.

What are my options to be able to sign this off without any destructive investigation / remedial work?

My first thought was to split the ring into two 20a radial circuits. But it would be preferable to leave it connected as a ring for increased capacity.

As far as I understand it the fact that the CPC doesn’t have ring continuity isn’t affecting safety or disconnection times, so is there a reason I couldn’t sign this off and simply note this fact?
I would say further investigation needed, I would be surprised if its anything other than earthwire clamped to green sleeving remove cables and check, sorted
 
4mm circuit 32amp ocpd has a 1.5mm cpc. Why is it different?? I was questioning this the other day. Obviously readings compliant to operate in required time.

You still can't sign a new RFC off if one of the conductors does not form a ring.
 
No i agree. Im not debating its wrong at all. But for my own interest....say a eicr. Comparing it to the situation i just gave. Electrically is it unsafe??

It's unsafe in the sense that you know for a fact a cable has been physically damaged somewhere, and so needs repairing or replacing.
 

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