RCD Protecion is hospital

[TJC1]

Hi people.

Picked up a little job to move and rewire some lights, sockets and data points in a hospital. The room was used before as a casualty operating room. And is being converted into a low level operating room.

The whole install is in metal conduit, metal trunking and singles.

How ever there is no RCD protection on any of the sockets at the moment, which some circuits supply reception, waiting rooms, offices etc.


It was tested only 5 years ago and is due a ECR this month, however, we need to supply a minor works cert to sign the job off.

Can anyone direct me to regs regarding RCD protections. Because there is '' Life Saving '' equipment is used on the circuit, I would not like an RCD to be on the circuit.

Thankyou

 

[Andy78]

Section 710, medical locations.

 

[TJC1]

I have looked on that Section but cant see any specifics. Trying to figure out why the ECR report didn't pick up the lack of RCD protection, and wherever there is any regs to say no RCD protection.

 

[Andy78]

Look in the section about safety systems, im sure there is something about supplies for life preserving equipment or something similar.

I have no practical experience in medical theatre work, but something is ringing a little bell that there may be other regulations specific to these locations outside of BS7671. Someone more in the know may be able to correct me on that though.

 

[Pete999]

What does the Hospital CoW / Schedule of work say is required, I doubt very much that there isn't some specification involved.

 

[benji]

Perhaps a chat with hospital elec. eng. would help

 

[benji]

There used to be NHS Model electrical specs. ( but probably archived now )

 

[Marvo]

If it's an operating theater or even an ex-operating theater it could be an IT earthing arrangement with an insulation monitor at the point of supply. I'd do some serious investigating before proceeding.

http://www.schneider-electric.cl/documents/designers/top-downloads/090197c6800bcbde_.pdf

 

[Darkwood]

Hi people.

Picked up a little job to move and rewire some lights, sockets and data points in a hospital. The room was used before as a casualty operating room. And is being converted into a low level operating room.

The whole install is in metal conduit, metal trunking and singles.

How ever there is no RCD protection on any of the sockets at the moment, which some circuits supply reception, waiting rooms, offices etc.


It was tested only 5 years ago and is due a ECR this month, however, we need to supply a minor works cert to sign the job off.

Can anyone direct me to regs regarding RCD protections. Because there is '' Life Saving '' equipment is used on the circuit, I would not like an RCD to be on the circuit.

Thankyou

That sentence made me chuckle, isn't an RCD a life saving device ... personally I see your confusion and would be interesting to see how its done in the medical arena where you have a conflict of safety measures.

 

[martinh287]

I assume you are not adding the sockets onto the IPU circuit.

In that case additional protection by rcd could be omitted due to metal containment been used, as long as the stricter disconnection times for group 2 locations can be meet.

 

[stevey1983]

Look up meigan and also guidance notes 7 best to speak to head of electrical maintenance in hospital, see whats required. They will do risk assessment

 

[paul-cudmore]

I've worked in a few hospitals and all the operating theatres have always been supplied via isolated power supplies. You could also try looking in HTM 06-02 for guidance.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

As already stated, section 710 BS7671. However that doesn't seem to say RCD can be ommited so the principles for having an RCD must be the same as in others areas. Perhaps you could use 411.3.3 (b) i.e label the socket so it is used for one specific item but then it would either have to be on its own circuit or on a circuit with other 'labelled' sockets.

 

[Andy78]

As already stated, section 710 BS7671. However that doesn't seem to say RCD can be ommited so the principles for having an RCD must be the same as in others areas. Perhaps you could use 411.3.3 (b) i.e label the socket so it is used for one specific item but then it would either have to be on its own circuit or on a circuit with other 'labelled' sockets.

What section 710 does say is that:

• a theatre is listed as a group 2 location. (A710)
• an IT system shall be used for group 2 locations. (710.411.6.3.1)
• where an IT system is used additional protection by RCD shall not be used (710.411.3.3)

 

[martinh287]

If we are taking about standard 'Essential' sockets to be installed then the use of the rcd is at the discretion of the project manager who after discussions with senior medical staff that will be in charge of the room, can make informed decisions about the need for a rcd or not. The design of the circuit can allow for no rcd to be installed if required.

As for been a non compliance and not picked up on the last EICR, the only issue I would have with the installation would be the fact that the same circuit is also suppling other non medical areas

 

[Darkwood]

If we are taking about standard 'Essential' sockets to be installed then the use of the rcd is at the discretion of the project manager who after discussions with senior medical staff that will be in charge of the room, can make informed decisions about the need for a rcd or not. The design of the circuit can allow for no rcd to be installed if required.

As for been a non compliance and not picked up on the last EICR, the only issue I would have with the installation would be the fact that the same circuit is also suppling other non medical areas

If your refering to the BS7671 here, the 3rd ammendment has addressed this issue and you cannot just leave the sockets unprotected under an instructed person anymore, a documented risk assessment is required to be done although having an instructed person in loop may be part of the risk assessment.

 

[martinh287]

Valid point and one which I had failed to recognise.

The risk assessment should show a comprehensive PAT regime and training for the end user as well as with the design of the circuit. This could allow for no rcd if it is decided not to have the rcd protection.

OP requires further consolation with the client and a copy of the risk assessment before he can go any further I feel

 

[UNG]

I've not done any hospital work for a good few years but when I did it would be normal to check for any HTM's for guidance

The HTM's you need to look at are 06-01, 06-02 and possibly 06-03

Not read them myself but I think they will answer your question