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RDB85

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So last night I noticed that the Socket behind the TV was not working. Plugged in my Kewtech plug tester and nothing. So turned off the MCB for the downstairs sockets. Undone the Socket and its been spurred using new colours from the 13A FCU. Changed the 13A fuse in the FCU, checked the cables and nothing seems out of the ordinary.

There is a socket below that which is wired in Old Colours, which has been there forever. I am just wondering if there is an issue with the FCU, or the wiring itself.

Screwed it all back and then turned the MCB back on. Our house is currently wired in Old Colours, with a Square D CCU. Anyway plugged my socket tester in and again nothing. Would anyone have any ideas what it could be?

Is there any test equipment I could buy to allow me to do some testing, other than a Test Metre as i don't have a lot of money at the moment.
 
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Pete999

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So last night I noticed that the Socket behind the TV was not working. Plugged in my Kewtech plug tester and nothing. So turned off the MCB for the downstairs sockets. Undone the Socket and its been spurred using new colours from the 13A FCU. Changed the 13A fuse in the FCU, checked the cables and nothing seems out of the ordinary.

There is a socket below that which is wired in Old Colours, which has been there forever. I am just wondering if there is an issue with the FCU, or the wiring itself.

Screwed it all back and then turned the MCB back on. Our house is currently wired in Old Colours, with a Square D CCU. Anyway plugged my socket tester in and again nothing. Would anyone have any ideas what it could be?

Is there any test equipment I could buy to allow me to do some testing, other than a Test Metre as i don't have a lot of money at the moment.
Is the FCU live? any idea where it is spurred from?
 

Spoon

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Where does the FCU wire to?

Ok. Pete beat me to it. And his is better English and more understandable... :disappointed:
 

RDB85

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The FCU is for an outside light. But the switch is broke. So I can’t turn it on to see if there is power going to it.

I may buy a new switch. Then see what happens with the new fcu in place.
 

Pete999

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Where does the FCU wire to?

Ok. Pete beat me to it. And his is better English and more understandable... :disappointed:
Comes from being from down South, tawt English, an spelin proper like immit
 

Pete999

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The FCU is for an outside light. But the switch is broke. So I can’t turn it on to see if there is power going to it.

I may buy a new switch. Then see what happens with the new fcu in place.
That's different information from your opening post, it intimates that the faulty socket us fed from the FCU! Start again shall we? where is the faulty socket outlet fed from?
 

Spoon

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Comes from being from down South, tawt English, an spelin proper like immit
We all want to be like the southern men, with their skirts and man buns...
 

RDB85

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That's different information from your opening post, it intimates that the faulty socket us fed from the FCU! Start again shall we? where is the faulty socket outlet fed from?
I’m just adding more information. To my original post. The socket is fed from the FCU. The FCU is for an outside light.
 

telectrix

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Have difficulty giving me a man Bun Spoon, ,ore hair on a gooseberry than my head.
i got a nice blonde wig going cheap. was for Mrs. Tel when she had chemo, but hers grew back. she now got blonde hair all down her back ( none on her head though :D :smiley: :confused: :hibiscus: )
 

Spoon

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I’m just adding more information. To my original post. The socket is fed from the FCU. The FCU is for an outside light.
Hi mate.
Ok, the bust socket is fed from the FCU. Where does the FCU get it's feed from?
 

telectrix

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if you are south side of the Pool and stuck, give me a shout. £60 call-out + £8 toll Mersey Bridge.
 

Spoon

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You could get a cheap digital meter.
So you are an electrical trainee?
 

Pete999

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I’m just adding more information. To my original post. The socket is fed from the FCU. The FCU is for an outside light.
Does the feed for the SO come from the load side, or the feed side of the fcu.
 

Spoon

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Pete999

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I’m just adding more information. To my original post. The socket is fed from the FCU. The FCU is for an outside light.
You said you swapped the 13A fuse in the FCU that's what threw me, why did you do that? if its feeding the outside light?
 
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RDB85

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You said you swapped the 13A fuse in the FCU that's what threw me, why did you do that? if its feeding the outside light?
Just because it was so old the light. It was more a process of elimination. I can say that it was a brand new fuse.
 

telectrix

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as you are a trainee, i'll discount you £5 and let you watch. can't say fairer than that. :sunglasses:
 

telectrix

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Currently studying at college my C&G courses. What would you recommend something like a Fluke T5-1000 be okay?
that would be OK for safe isolation and a rough guide as to voltage,amps and resistance measurements.
 

RDB85

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I will have a look at those. I would look in screwfix but they are overpriced.
 

telectrix

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don'y buy anything till you have asked advice on this forum, so many trainees have bought inapproriate tools that lie in a toolbox waiting for the plumber to nick, coz he don't know how they work but he wants one.
 

RDB85

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don'y buy anything till you have asked advice on this forum, so many trainees have bought inapproriate tools that lie in a toolbox waiting for the plumber to nick, coz he don't know how they work but he wants one.
I always ask on here first before buying something especially test equipment as it’s expensive.
 

telectrix

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a 2nd hand megger 1552/3 is cheap loads on ebay, but be sure it's calibrated and pay by paypal.
 

ipf

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To test properly you'll need to know how to use the instrument. Have a word with your tutor at college, maybe. See if you can borrow one from them, perhaps. Don't be messing if you're not up to it, though.
 

telectrix

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now you mention YESSS. Warrington branch have a free calibration day next week .Thursday July 4th.
 

Spoon

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I’ve ordered a new FCU. Going to get it later on tonight.
That might solve the outside light but the switch should have no affect on the spar socket, depending on how it's wired..

Just to add. I'm presuming:
the FCU is just for the outside light, so would have something like a 5A fuse in it and the light wired to the Load side.
the spar is wired to the Feed side.
 

RDB85

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  • #48
That might solve the outside light but the switch should have no affect on the spar socket, depending on how it's wired..

Just to add. I'm presuming:
the FCU is just for the outside light, so would have something like a 5A fuse in it and the light wired to the Load side.
the spar is wired to the Feed side.
The FCU is for the outside light. It had a 13a fuse in when I opened it. I am just out at the moment. But I will check how it’s been wired. That should be the case. Light on the load side and spur on the feed side.
 

Pete999

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That might solve the outside light but the switch should have no affect on the spar socket, depending on how it's wired..

Just to add. I'm presuming:
the FCU is just for the outside light, so would have something like a 5A fuse in it and the light wired to the Load side.
the spar is wired to the Feed side.
Don't you use Tesco Spoon? I thought Spar closed a while back
 
D

Deleted member 26818

Looks like the spur has been taken from the supply side of the FCU.
So changing the fuse will have no effect.
Need to look at the nearest socket, to see if the FCU is spurred from that and check the connections.
 

Pete999

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Looks like the spur has been taken from the supply side of the FCU.
So changing the fuse will have no effect.
Need to look at the nearest socket, to see if the FCU is spurred from that and check the connections.
Agree wholeheartedly
 

RDB85

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Looks like the spur has been taken from the supply side of the FCU.
So changing the fuse will have no effect.
Need to look at the nearest socket, to see if the FCU is spurred from that and check the connections.
So further investigation. Below the FCU is a socket, which I changed about a month ago, with a new faceplate. Upon looking there is T&E in the back, which is old colours, 3 red (live) 3 (black) neutral and 3 twin and earth. Looking at it I would say that it's spurred from that socket to the FCU. Then whoever has added in the new socket for the has then taken a feed from the FCU using new colours to that socket.

But I am going to collect a new FCU, so I will check the connections. There seems to be no loose connections or damage from what I can see visually. This is probably were an MFT would be of use if I had the money.
 

Pete999

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So further investigation. Below the FCU is a socket, which I changed about a month ago, with a new faceplate. Upon looking there is T&E in the back, which is old colours, 3 red (live) 3 (black) neutral and 3 twin and earth. Looking at it I would say that it's spurred from that socket to the FCU. Then whoever has added in the new socket for the has then taken a feed from the FCU using new colours to that socket.

But I am going to collect a new FCU, so I will check the connections. There seems to be no loose connections or damage from what I can see visually. This is probably were an MFT would be of use if I had the money.
 

Pete999

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A decent set of safe isolation kit, a good screwdriver and some experience would be the best option
 

RDB85

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  • #59
sounds like you need to learn how to use a multimeter for continuity and voltage
or get someone who knows what they are looking for
.
I am learning, thanks for pointing that out. If I could afford a multimeter then I would buy one. Money at the moment is not great. It's also the reason why I am trying to learn how to do it myself. Rather than paying someone with the money, I don't have to go sorted, and then I don't learn anything.
 

DPG

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You don't need a true RMS Multimeter for what you are doing. A voltage tester, an MFT and a copy of GN3 would be your best start in my opinion.

And keep asking questions.
 
The first tool that you need is a voltage indicator and proving unit. Once you have that you can prove that something is safe to work on, but you can also use it to test where you have voltage and where you don't.

In this case the smoking gun is that both the socket that isn't working and the light that maybe isn't working are fed from a socket that you've recently changed so that is probably a good thing to look at in your investigations. Three wires are more difficult to terminate than two and so a bit more care is needed. However, this does pose the question as to whether it is a ring final circuit you're working on as an unfused spur can only supply one accessory.
 

RDB85

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The first tool that you need is a voltage indicator and proving unit. Once you have that you can prove that something is safe to work on, but you can also use it to test where you have voltage and where you don't.

In this case the smoking gun is that both the socket that isn't working and the light that maybe isn't working are fed from a socket that you've recently changed so that is probably a good thing to look at in your investigations. Three wires are more difficult to terminate than two and so a bit more care is needed. However, this does pose the question as to whether it is a ring final circuit you're working on as an unfused spur can only supply one accessory.
Right okay. I will start with a Voltage Indicator and Proving Unit. See how much they are. I have got my FCU also. Well it could be a ring final circuit, as all of the sockets downstairs are on one mcb. There is another for the boiler and one for the old immersion heater, that we no longer have. I will check the mcb rating to see if it is a ring.

But that fcu for the light has not been used for a number of years. Its an old alleyway light, that was put in. The additional socket for the tv was added a year ago. All were working okay. I will check the connections for the socket with the new faceplate on, just to see if there are any issues. A bit of sheath in the terminals. The kewtech socket tester did not report any issues and all three lights were green. It is an odd one, for me being new its experience of trial and error and asking questions.
 

Pete999

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Right okay. I will start with a Voltage Indicator and Proving Unit. See how much they are. I have got my FCU also. Well it could be a ring final circuit, as all of the sockets downstairs are on one mcb. There is another for the boiler and one for the old immersion heater, that we no longer have. I will check the mcb rating to see if it is a ring.

But that fcu for the light has not been used for a number of years. Its an old alleyway light, that was put in. The additional socket for the tv was added a year ago. All were working okay. I will check the connections for the socket with the new faceplate on, just to see if there are any issues. A bit of sheath in the terminals. The kewtech socket tester did not report any issues and all three lights were green. It is an odd one, for me being new its experience of trial and error and asking questions.
Checking the Breaker (OCPD) will not prove the circuit is a Ring Final (RFC) to prove it is a RFC You need to carry out the appropriate dead testing.















































































































(
 

DPG

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Do some basic dead testing and draw out the circuit as you go. See what is connected to what. Post your diagram on here when you've done it.

Are you OK doing basic continuity tests once you have a meter? Do you own a copy of guidance note 3?
 

Pete999

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OP you could try looking at the YouTube videos on Testing etc, the guy I sent you a video of is very good, there are many equally good presenters in there, worth a look if you are really interested, give it a bash.
 

RDB85

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Do some basic dead testing and draw out the circuit as you go. See what is connected to what. Post your diagram on here when you've done it.

Are you OK doing basic continuity tests once you have a meter? Do you own a copy of guidance note 3?
I’ve got the regs and an OSG. Where would you get GN3 from?
 

RDB85

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OP you could try looking at the YouTube videos on Testing etc, the guy I sent you a video of is very good, there are many equally good presenters in there, worth a look if you are really interested, give it a bash.
Thanks Pete. I’ve seen a few of Chris’s videos before. They are really good. I will have a look at them.
 

Pete999

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RDB85

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So I spoke to my tutor yesterday and luckily they went through safe isolation and then how to test a 3 phase distribution board. I have seen this kit on ebay: Socket And See SP200 proving unit And Socket & See Voltage Tester VIP Pro | eBay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Socket-And-See-SP200-proving-unit-And-Socket-See-Voltage-Tester-VIP-Pro/293104145650?hash=item443e5e54f2:g:JIEAAOSwKotc69r5

Would that be okay as it seems to be a good price, but I have never heard of the brand. Or shall I just look at a Megger?

Megger:

 

Pete999

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So I spoke to my tutor yesterday and luckily they went through safe isolation and then how to test a 3 phase distribution board. I have seen this kit on ebay: Socket And See SP200 proving unit And Socket & See Voltage Tester VIP Pro | eBay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Socket-And-See-SP200-proving-unit-And-Socket-See-Voltage-Tester-VIP-Pro/293104145650?hash=item443e5e54f2:g:JIEAAOSwKotc69r5

Would that be okay as it seems to be a good price, but I have never heard of the brand. Or shall I just look at a Megger?

Megger:

Aa long as the kit complies, but Kewtec for me.
 

Pete999

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RDB85

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Just bought an MK FCU. I’ve now safe isolated the circuit. I’ve split it so I have the circuit for the outside light. Which is to the right and then a circuit coming from the top. Old colours are from the socket below and the new colours are from the spurred socket.

Looking at the back of the MK socket it had the supply and load. I am looking at how it was wired previously

Load would be the outside light and the Supply would be the sockets.

Would that be correct?
 

Spoon

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So the old coloured cables are part of the existing RFC and the new colour is a spur socket from the RFC?
 

RDB85

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  • #84
So the old coloured cables are part of the existing RFC and the new colour is a spur socket from the RFC?
New colours are from the addition socket that is spurred from the FCU. Old colours are from the RFC. As all the sockets downstairs are on a RFC. Which is then has a feed from that socket to the FCU.
 

RDB85

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Socket on the bottom is on a RFC. Which is in old colours. It then has a spur to the FCU above in old colours. There is then flex for the light in old colours in the FCU. Then the final socket is then spurred from the FCU in new colours.

Good news is the outside light works.
 

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RDB85

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So tried again, bought a new lamp for the outside light. Wired the spur so that the Load Side is the Light and the Supply is the sockets. Tested the socket under the bracket. Still not working with the Socket Tester. Tried the FCU with the new lamp. Nothing.

I then looked at the wiring on the RFC, it seems that one of the live (red) is quite short. It reaches into the socket but barely, so I have got a crimping tool, some blue crimps and some 2.5mm2 T&E. So I am going to try and extend any short cables. Although the socket tester has come back all green lights, showing no faults.
 

DPG

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I personally think you should get a spark to check this out to be on the safe side. I'm sure he wouldn't mind going through what he is doing once he knows your a trainee.
 

Pete999

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green for starboard, red for port. why do you want 2 greens?
2 of the 5 a day Tell, Coffee in the AM Beer at noon Beer at finishing time Peas and Sprouts for Dinner
 

Spoon

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So tried again, bought a new lamp for the outside light. Wired the spur so that the Load Side is the Light and the Supply is the sockets. Tested the socket under the bracket. Still not working with the Socket Tester. Tried the FCU with the new lamp. Nothing.

I then looked at the wiring on the RFC, it seems that one of the live (red) is quite short. It reaches into the socket but barely, so I have got a crimping tool, some blue crimps and some 2.5mm2 T&E. So I am going to try and extend any short cables. Although the socket tester has come back all green lights, showing no faults.
So if the light, wired to the new FCU is not working then the problem is going to be before this.
Is your bottom socket functioning ok?
 

RDB85

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  • #95
So if the light, wired to the new FCU is not working then the problem is going to be before this.
Is your bottom socket functioning ok?
Yes the bottom socket is okay. Tested with a socket tester and it’s all green. TV is plugged in and working.
 

Spoon

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Yes the bottom socket is okay. Tested with a socket tester and it’s all green. TV is plugged in and working.
Edit... Brain fart moment...

So just to recap. The bottom socket is working. This wires to the new FCU which is not working.
Are the wires going from the bottom socket to the FCU ok?
 

RDB85

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  • #97
Edit... Brain fart moment...

So just to recap. The bottom socket is working. This wires to the new FCU which is not working.
Are the wires going from the bottom socket to the FCU ok?
Yes that’s correct. The wiring appears to be okay. No signs of damage. But as mentioned one of the lives although reaches just, is a little short. So I was thinking of maybe adding some blue butt crimps to that and then using some 2.5mm2 twin and earth to extend the cable. Just to see could that be the issue .
 

Spoon

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Yes that’s correct. The wiring appears to be okay. No signs of damage. But as mentioned one of the lives although reaches just, is a little short. So I was thinking of maybe adding some blue butt crimps to that and then using some 2.5mm2 twin and earth to extend the cable. Just to see could that be the issue .
The cable length looked ok in the pics you posted up before, but you are there so you will know... :)
If the light to the new FCU isn't working or the socket wired to the FCU, then it seems to suggest its the cable from the bottom socket to the FCU that may be at fault.
 

RDB85

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  • #99
The cable length looked ok in the pics you posted up before, but you are there so you will know... :)
If the light to the new FCU isn't working or the socket wired to the FCU, then it seems to suggest its the cable from the bottom socket to the FCU that may be at fault.
Those cables look okay as I say. Would it be okay to do a butt crimp on the live and use the brown from the 2.5 t&e as a new live?
 

Spoon

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Those cables look okay as I say. Would it be okay to do a butt crimp on the live and use the brown from the 2.5 t&e as a new live?
If you need to extend one on the cables then using a butt crimp and descent heatshrink would be one way of doing it.
Someone did post a nice little inline connector (Not Wago) in a past post, that looked good.
 

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