Swapping out a cooker switch

gardenbennett · Jul 2, 2015

Have been asked to disconnect a 40A fixed line to a cooker. The new cooker is apparently a '13A, 3 pin' one, though I'll believe that when I see it. The cable isn't being removed, so it needs terminating properly. I was thinking it could go into a new plug socket, but then the RCD for the circuit would be too high. Have been looking at
1) Swapping the isolator switch for an isolator switch with a socket, and just leaving the cooker switch on this unconnected and non-functional
2) Wiring in a double socket with a built in RCD

What do people think?

davesparks · Jul 2, 2015

What do you mean the RCD will be too high? Is it protected by 100mA?

Marvo · Jul 2, 2015

I'm also confused by the question. If this is DIY works you're doing please let us know because we have a DIY forum specifically and I'll relocate your questions there for you.

DuaneMHunt1976 · Jul 2, 2015

The RCD is to protect the cable
Could put a cooker switch leading to a socket (switch to socket can be done in 2.5 or 1.5, but I would go with the 2.5)

Can be fined for not reporting some electrical work

davesparks · Jul 2, 2015

DuaneMHunt1976 said:
The RCD is to protect the cable
Could put a cooker switch leading to a socket (switch to socket can be done in 2.5 or 1.5, but I would go with the 2.5)

Can be fined for not reporting some electrical work

RCDs don't protect cables!

Who on earth is going to fine someone for not reporting electrical work? Which law?

GMES · Jul 2, 2015

Rcd's protect you not the cable!!!!!

DuaneMHunt1976 · Jul 2, 2015

I.have a hard time.explaining things.so.I'll give.links.now
Love.the.echo.in these forums
RCDs Explained | Electrical Safety First
And I'm guessing he ment mcb than RCD and in my head I just read it as he was talking about a mcb but my.mind didn't change the letters
Napit said I could be fined.for.not reporting electrical work done.. So shouldn't believe every thing people say

Jpmac84 · Jul 2, 2015

Do you mean MCB current rating? Because rcd too high for circuit doesn't make much sense.

davesparks · Jul 2, 2015

Jpmac84 said:
Do you mean MCB current rating? Because rcd too high for circuit doesn't make much sense.

Mcb makes no sense either in the context

Paul.M · Jul 3, 2015

An RCD is an additional protection device to protect stupid people from drilling holes into cables less than 50mm from a finished surface or plugging in an outdoor appliance. Also for any appliance do with with water or within a Zone.

A MCB protects the cable. Basic rule of thumb, the MCB rating must be lower than what the cable can carry in its installation method.

As for your 6mm radial cooker circuit, just terminate it into a normal plug socket on a 32A MCB. Do the tests first to make sure the cable is still fit for use and issue a MWC (if you want to, you dont have to btw).

Good luck with it and tell us all how it went.

davesparks · Jul 3, 2015

Paul.M said:
An RCD is an additional protection device to protect stupid people from drilling holes into cables less than 50mm from a finished surface or plugging in an outdoor appliance.

No it isn't, it does nothing to protect people from drilling holes in to cables, it reduces the likelihood of them receiving a fatal shock when they drill into a cable and make contact with a live wire.

Jpmac84 · Jul 3, 2015

davesparks said:
Mcb makes no sense either in the context

You're right it doesn't but I was struggling to see what he was on about? If he ditches the plug and terminates the cable it might be though.

Midwest · Jul 3, 2015

davesparks said:
No it isn't, it does nothing to protect people from drilling holes in to cables, it reduces the likelihood of them receiving a fatal shock when they drill into a cable and make contact with a live wire.

Then by definition it 'protect(s) stupid people from drilling holes into cables'. Think your splitting hairs.

Midwest · Jul 3, 2015

gardenbennett said:
Have been asked to disconnect a 40A fixed line to a cooker. The new cooker is apparently a '13A, 3 pin' one, though I'll believe that when I see it. The cable isn't being removed, so it needs terminating properly. I was thinking it could go into a new plug socket, but then the RCD for the circuit would be too high. Have been looking at
1) Swapping the isolator switch for an isolator switch with a socket, and just leaving the cooker switch on this unconnected and non-functional
2) Wiring in a double socket with a built in RCD

What do people think?

OP there are electric cookers out there that come with a 13a plug fitted. If that what the manufacturer recommends, then it's ok (long as it has relevant CE marks etc!). I think option 1 would look a bit pants and the same for 2). As the rest of guys say, you need to provide a bit more precise information, to be offered suitable suggestions.

Hellmooth · Jul 3, 2015

Midwest said:
Then by definition it 'protect(s) stupid people from drilling holes into cables'. Think your splitting hairs.

Nothing new then.......

shanky887614 · Jul 3, 2015

whats wrong with a cooker point with built in socket?

no need to fusedown is there, afterall the plug will have either a 13amp or slow blow fuse

Midwest · Jul 3, 2015

Think he was on about plugging electric oven into socket on cooker outlet...could be wrong, wouldn't look that great in most circumstances IMO.

Paul.M · Jul 3, 2015

davesparks said:
No it isn't, it does nothing to protect people from drilling holes in to cables, it reduces the likelihood of them receiving a fatal shock when they drill into a cable and make contact with a live wire.

Splitting hairs Davesparks? Whatever.

Hellmooth · Jul 3, 2015

Pedantic.......

Dave OCD · Jul 3, 2015

I think the OP is saying that the existing cooker circuit is fed via a 100ma RCD [possibly a 15th/16th edition dual 30/100ma board on a TT system which was perfectly acceptable in its time] and his concern is that by changing the panel to a normal socket he'd then be contravening current and previous regs by not having 30ma RCD protection - yes I know there are assumptions here but I'm trying to be positive and if this was the case then the 'cooker' MCB could simply be transferred to the 30ma side of the board or if not feasible then just reconnect the cable as a spur off the appropriate ring MCB at the DB.

7029 dave · Jul 3, 2015

Hellmooth said:
Pedantic.......

Yeah,.......... yawn lol

davesparks · Jul 3, 2015

Midwest said:
Then by definition it 'protect(s) stupid people from drilling holes into cables'. Think your splitting hairs.

No it doesn't! It does not protect them from drilling the hole, it limits the severity of the electric shock they receive once they have drilled the hole.
How on earth would an RCD protect someone from drilling in to the cable?

davesparks · Jul 3, 2015

Paul.M said:
Splitting hairs Davesparks? Whatever.

No it's not 'whatever'! There is a big difference between protecting someone from drilling in to a cable and limiting the severity of the shock they receive if they do drill in to it.

Midwest · Jul 4, 2015

davesparks said:
No it's not 'whatever'! There is a big difference between protecting someone from drilling in to a cable and limiting the severity of the shock they receive if they do drill in to it.

Digging hole for yourself comes to mind.

shanky887614 · Jul 4, 2015

davesparks said:
No it's not 'whatever'! There is a big difference between protecting someone from drilling in to a cable and limiting the severity of the shock they receive if they do drill in to it.

Midwest said:
Digging hole for yourself comes to mind.

Midwest · Jul 4, 2015

:leaving:

davesparks · Jul 4, 2015

Midwest said:
Digging hole for yourself comes to mind.

Go on then, how does an RCD protect someone from drilling into cables?

Deleted member 26818 · Jul 4, 2015

davesparks said:
Go on then, how does an RCD protect someone from drilling into cables?

I believe it limits the severity of the shock they may get.

davesparks · Jul 4, 2015

spinlondon said:
I believe it limits the severity of the shock they may get.

Which exactly what I said, and am apparently wrong about. He is saying it protects them from drilling in to the cable, I want to know how he thinks it does this.

Richard Burns · Jul 4, 2015

Really I am sure that you can follow that the specific wording of the phrase "additional protection device to protect people from drilling holes into cables" would be interpreted as "protect people from the effects of drilling holes into cables" or "protect people who are drilling holes into cables".
A slight miswording of a phrase is not something to get steamed up over.

davesparks · Jul 4, 2015

Richard Burns said:
Really I am sure that you can follow that the specific wording of the phrase "additional protection device to protect people from drilling holes into cables" would be interpreted as "protect people from the effects of drilling holes into cables" or "protect people who are drilling holes into cables".
A slight miswording of a phrase is not something to get steamed up over.

Yes it is, an electrician should be a skilled tradesman in a technical trade. If they can't get something as basic as this right then they should not be allowed to practice the trade as they could place people's lives in danger

Midwest · Jul 4, 2015

Paul.M said:
An RCD is an additional protection device to protect stupid people (from) when drilling holes into cables less than 50mm from a finished surface...........

I've amended Paul.M's post, which is what he meant, I think. Anyhow, hardly worth arguing over, a word that is.

Paul.M · Jul 4, 2015

Paul.M said:
An RCD is an additional protection device to protect stupid people from drilling holes into cables less than 50mm from a finished surface.........

If a drill or nail hits an energized cable, the RCD will operate. What is wrong with the above statement??? It protects the operative of the said drill or nail and not the regular timing of their heartbeat. (are you thinking/talking about mechanical protection? See below).

davesparks said:
No it isn't, it does nothing to protect people from drilling holes in to cables, it reduces the likelihood of them receiving a fatal shock when they drill into a cable and make contact with a live wire.

All the "people" have to do is buy a Part P Regs book @ £16 and understand about safe zones. Simples!

PS, we now call them LINE

Midwest said:
Then by definition it 'protect(s) stupid people from drilling holes into cables'. Think your splitting hairs.

Yep and this can get surgical if it continues?

Hellmooth said:
Pedantic.......

Agree, why the hell am I spending time writing this when a first year student understands the context of this thread or what was said in the first place?

davesparks said:
No it doesn't! It does not protect them from drilling the hole, it limits the severity of the electric shock they receive once they have drilled the hole.
How on earth would an RCD protect someone from drilling in to the cable?

They need to buy a Part P book before putting up that Ikea picture frame or mirror.

davesparks said:
No it's not 'whatever'! There is a big difference between protecting someone from drilling in to a cable and limiting the severity of the shock they receive if they do drill in to it.

The "whatever" post was directed at you. Nice to see your looking at this thread now, got your attention???

Any time you are stuck on a Reg question on site, just send me a PM I'll give you the answer.

All the best

Paul M

Paul.M · Jul 4, 2015

Btw as per the HSC, 88-90% (GN7 btw)... We cant protect everyone. Some people just cant take a 30mA shock.

Ps most people have a class II drill...... Whatever......

dingledong · Jul 4, 2015

Good grief

GMES · Jul 4, 2015

It's Dingledong where have you been hiding.

Paul.M · Jul 4, 2015

dingledong said:
Good grief

Yep I'm dropping it. We have both said our piece. It has become childish now. PM me if you want to chat.

dean.diy · Jul 5, 2015

Another top class rally in Wimbledon week.

Guest77 · Jul 5, 2015

gardenbennett said:
Have been asked to disconnect a 40A fixed line to a cooker. The new cooker is apparently a '13A, 3 pin' one, though I'll believe that when I see it. The cable isn't being removed, so it needs terminating properly. I was thinking it could go into a new plug socket, but then the RCD for the circuit would be too high. Have been looking at
1) Swapping the isolator switch for an isolator switch with a socket, and just leaving the cooker switch on this unconnected and non-functional
2) Wiring in a double socket with a built in RCD

What do people think?

Removed to keep forum harmony.

Guest77 · Jul 5, 2015

GMES said:
It's Dingledong where have you been hiding.

Not far enough away unfortunately.

gardenbennett

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