Will this old consumer unit pose any issues with an upcoming EICR?

[Deleted account]

As in post 14 . See what the EICR brings back. Too much speculation may confuse the issue.

after the day I’ve had ive had enough confusion. ?

 

[radiohead]

Based on the picture I beg to differ on most of the above. There is no cover over the fuses which means live parts are accessible without the use of a tool by simply gripping one of the fuses and tilting it slightly. Without a screwed fuse cover as originally supplied by Wylex these boards present an immediate danger of contact with live parts. If the board does not have a screwed cover it is a code 1 if in an easily accessible position. Code 2 if it is generally out of reach or not easily accessible. Some of these boards have a cover with a knurled nut removable by hand, so if the cover is fitted there is no access to live parts , but nevertheless live parts can be accessed without the use of a tool so a code 2 is appropriate. Later boards had the screwed cover requiring a tool, but it MUST be in place.

 

[Rockingit]

Based on the picture I beg to differ on most of the above. There is no cover over the fuses which means live parts are accessible without the use of a tool by simply gripping one of the fuses and tilting it slightly. Without a screwed fuse cover as originally supplied by Wylex these boards present an immediate danger of contact with live parts. If the board does not have a screwed cover it is a code 1 if in an easily accessible position. Code 2 if it is generally out of reach or not easily accessible. Some of these boards have a cover with a knurled nut removable by hand, so if the cover is fitted there is no access to live parts , but nevertheless live parts can be accessed without the use of a tool so a code 2 is appropriate. Later boards had the screwed cover requiring a tool, but it MUST be in place.

I'm not, necessarily, disagreeing with you, but I am caused to wonder at how we've never heard of the hundreds of thousands who must have died back in the 70's and 80's changing fuses.

 

[radiohead]

Things were different back then but I'll wager there were many householders who got a handful from these boards messing around with the fuses. In fact there was a case in the last few years which was reported by the NICEIC where an elderly man received a severe shock from a metal coat hanger which came into contact with a wylex fuse carrier in one of these boards without the cover fitted. I suspect you would not question any code 1 for accessible exposed live parts in a different situation, yet it always amazes me that inspectors consistently ignore exposed live parts in these boards.

 

[Dave OCD]

The other frightening thing is when someone rewires the fuse badly and you get a tiny bit of excess live wire poking out, hard to see but you'd soon know about it.

 

[pc1966]

It might be that folk do more dumb stuff these days.

When new the boards had a cover you had to removed before you could access the fuse carriers. True you did not need a tool, but enough to stop the casual idiot. But with time and laziness the covers get lost, and folk store crap alongside the boards, and that sort of thing happens

In years gone by when I replaced the fuses with plug-in MCBs sometimes I would cut out the cover so the MCBs poke through but stayed in place, etc, but if the board was out of reach or cover gone then sometimes it would just be left like that.

If it was mine then I would put in a RCBO board, only a few circuits so cost versus RCD board negligable and far less risk/trouble longer term.

 

[timhoward]

Without a screwed fuse cover as originally supplied by Wylex these boards present an immediate danger of contact with live parts.

Of course, it (hopefully) goes without saying that a board change is the best course of action, for many good reasons, not least including the fact that tenants with a pulse tend to pay rent more quickly.

pc1966 beat me to it, but I was going to comment that if any Wylex without an outer cover within reach is an automatic C1 then presumably any with plug in MCBs designed to upgrade these boards are also automatically a C1, as the manufacturer can't have intended us to start hacking up the cover?

 

[radiohead]

Of course, it (hopefully) goes without saying that a board change is the best course of action, for many good reasons, not least including the fact that tenants with a pulse tend to pay rent more quickly.

pc1966 beat me to it, but I was going to comment that if any Wylex without an outer cover within reach is an automatic C1 then presumably any with plug in MCBs designed to upgrade these boards are also automatically a C1, as the manufacturer can't have intended us to start hacking up the cover?

Not necessarily. When Wylex introduced the plug in MCB's the board covers incorporated a 'knock out' to enable the cover to be fitted with the mcb's sitting proud of the cover. This is fine as the cover still prevents finger access to the live prongs on the mcb's.
It should also be pointed out that without the cover in place where fuses are fitted there is a risk of molten copper being ejected from the carrier when a fuse blows, particularly with larger fuse elements like 30a. I have never heard of this causing a fire or injury but it was a secondary intended function of the fuse cover.

 

[westward10]

The original intention of the shield was to prevent arc spatter coming out and setting fire to your Axminster. The originals had a thumb turn fixing which did not require a tool. It was not to prevent access to live parts although some may see this as it's intention now.

 

[Dave OCD]

Not necessarily. When Wylex introduced the plug in MCB's the board covers incorporated a 'knock out' to enable the cover to be fitted with the mcb's sitting proud of the cover. This is fine as the cover still prevents finger access to the live prongs on the mcb's.
It should also be pointed out that without the cover in place where fuses are fitted there is a risk of molten copper being ejected from the carrier when a fuse blows, particularly with larger fuse elements like 30a. I have never heard of this causing a fire or injury but it was a secondary intended function of the fuse cover.

Many a time I've carefully tapped out that thinned out section with an old screwdriver and hammer, then filed the edges nicely ready to fit over the new plug-in MCBs . Those along with an upfront RCD were the big safety upgrade at one time. ?

 

[Vortigern]

With an installation of that age it may have VIR cable (crumbly) and or problems that would trip the RCD/RCBO fitted. So usually it is best to do some testing beforehand as it may not just be the cost of replacing the board but also rectifying faults found when doing some testing to assay if the RCD will trip on any circuits. In the worst circumstances it may require rewiring partially or more. Also tracking down any faults found can be so expensive that is it cheaper to re-wire, especially if it is on just one or two circuits. The fact it has not "blown" in the past decade or whatever may just be down to someone poking nails in the fuseholder for all anyone knows.

 

[brianmoooore]

@Neptune. A 30A fuse will not blow, or even be overloaded, by a fault current 1000 times higher than the maximum fault current, of a particular type, that is allowed with current regulations. This is the main difference between your old board and a RCD or RCBO replacement.

 

[Neptune]

Hi All,
Thanks for all your comments. I found this very helpful. I wanted to share the EICR results with you.
The electrician overall assessment is "satisfactory". He stated that the general condition was satisfactory and and correct cable and protective devices have been used. Readings were within the required thresholds. He has recommended a CU upgrade to provide RCD protection.
All the circuits have been coded as C3.

Please let me know if it would be informative to share any other contents of this report.

Given this assessment, it feels to me that I should still consider a board change but an initial quotation is £450 and perhaps in the short term, I should invest in the plug-in breakers. I would appreciate your advice on this.

Thanks again.

 

[telectrix]

Given this assessment, it feels to me that I should still consider a board change but an initial quotation is £450 and perhaps in the short term, I should invest in the plug-in breakers. I would appreciate your advice on this.

plug in MCBs cost around a tenner each, and will give slight benefit. regarding the £450 quote, is that a duak RCD board or RCBO? with or without SPD? either way, you'll get far more benefit from a new CU, notably the RCD protection to all circuits.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Hi All,
Thanks for all your comments. I found this very helpful. I wanted to share the EICR results with you.
The electrician overall assessment is "satisfactory". He stated that the general condition was satisfactory and and correct cable and protective devices have been used. Readings were within the required thresholds. He has recommended a CU upgrade to provide RCD protection.
All the circuits have been coded as C3.

Please let me know if it would be informative to share any other contents of this report.

Given this assessment, it feels to me that I should still consider a board change but an initial quotation is £450 and perhaps in the short term, I should invest in the plug-in breakers. I would appreciate your advice on this.

Thanks again.

Thanks for the update Neptune, we like to hear how things go ?

If you are happy to, could you post up a picture of the report (personal details of yourself and the electrician blanked out) so we could have a look?

 

[Neptune]

I am trying to protect the confidentiality of the electrician and myself. Does the following help?
Let me know if you need to see any other parts.

 

[timhoward]

I was going also comment about a tenner a time for the plug in MCBs. I don't know what others think but I'd have said it's a sparks job fitting them the first time as (from memory its been ages) the back fuse covers have to be changed, so if you factor in a hour of a sparks time you may well have spent £100-£120 on what is a short term fix. IMHO that cash is better going into a new board.

Also, as @telectrix was getting at, all consumer units are not equal. You want to be sure what you are getting. It could range from a screwfix special where any earth fault means you lose power to everything, to a decent brand board with surge protection, and each circuit having it's own earth leakage protection.

All that to say £450 really doesn't sound a bad price but do ask what board he'd fit.

 

[timhoward]

Do you really only have 6 plug sockets?
(I like the prospective fault current btw)

 

[Neptune]

Do you really only have 6 plug sockets?
(I like the prospective fault current btw)

Yes, it's a Studio Flat

 

[brianmoooore]

The lack of RCD protection is a FAR bigger concern than the rewireable fuses.