Mains electricity cables running under footings

[christopher c]

Hi guys, I stumbled across this forum hoping to find s one answers to an issue I have. I am digging the footingd for a porch we are having built (permission given all clear by council ) however whilst digging I've come across some mains electricity cables.

I have since checked the deeds to the house and it mentions these. it seems that a previous owner gave permission for them to be laid in the boundary of the property in the early 70's. Question is , can they me bridged or will they need to be moved? I'm guessing the latter.

I'm happy to post pics if needed. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Chris.

 

[Octopus]

Your next move is to call UK Power Networks and see what they recommend.

 

[christopher c]

Ok cool. Thanks Murdoch.

 

[christopher c]

Hi guys, FYI here is a pic of the footings as they are. The electricity cables are on the left hand side. They run diagonally throught the left hand trench and come through in to the front trench. They are in a terracotta pipe ( I guess for protection) in part of the trench but are in the front trench they are just in a bitumen casing.

Thanks, Chris.

 

[christopher c]

P.S. Sorry for the awful photo.

 

[Octopus]

Is that single pipe at the "back" a surface water drain?

Is it yours or does it fall under the responsibility of Thames Water?

http://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/internet/en/contact-us/

 

[Leesparkykent]

They could more than likely be bridged with a lintel but as Murdoch said probably worth giving UK power networks a bell.

 

[christopher c]

Thanks for the comments guys. Much appreciated.Keep em coming. The pipe at the back is an earthenware pipe and is a waste soil pipe which carries water away from the property from a gutter/ downpipe.

 

[Octopus]

Whats on the other side of the fence?

 

[christopher c]

The other side of the fence is my back garden.I presume the earthenware pipe carries the rainwater to a soakaway in the back garden.

 

[christopher c]

Here is a slightly better pic.

 

[Marvo]

Geez, you certainly hit the jackpot with services in that trench What's the yellow cable out of interest?

 

[christopher c]

Ha ha. I know, tell me about it Marvo! The yellow is Gas. Water service pipe is down there too. Its been a headache to dig.

 

[Octopus]

This is what we found about 12" underground when preparing for our extension:







No on the Local Building control maps
not on the Thames Water maps

Direction of drain precisely where our foundations were supposed to be going!

 

[christopher c]

12" is no depth at all. That seems really close to the surface. What did you do about it in the end out of interest Murdoch?

 

[davesparks]

Geez, you certainly hit the jackpot with services in that trench What's the yellow cable out of interest?

Gas pipe

 

[davesparks]

12" is no depth at all. That seems really close to the surface. What did you do about it in the end out of interest Murdoch?

It's 12" too deep for an inspection cover though

 

[Octopus]

12" is no depth at all. That seems really close to the surface. What did you do about it in the end out of interest Murdoch?

The actual drain is about 6 foot down!

what did we do? Spend a lot of time and money redesigning our extension, getting all the foundations designed by so structural engineer. It's now sept and we may be starting again soon. Very much poorer.

just to cap it off we fell fowl of the party wall act - which came as a huge surprise as we are detached. More delays, more costs, more stress. And the icing on the cake - our neighbours are being complete idiots, really unreasonable.

 

[Octopus]

It's 12" too deep for an inspection cover though

as far as we could tell, it's been concealed since 1980 when the house was built

 

[christopher c]

Oh i see... ha ha. Its an inspection chamber!I thought the long black line on the right Murdoch was a black water service pipe and he was referring to that. That is ridiculous!

 

[christopher c]

The actual drain is about 6 foot down!

what did we do? Spend a lot of time and money redesigning our extension, getting all the foundations designed by so structural engineer. It's now sept and we may be starting again soon. Very much poorer.

just to cap it off we fell fowl of the party wall act - which came as a huge surprise as we are detached. More delays, more costs, more stress. And the icing on the cake - our neighbours are being complete idiots, really unreasonable.

Ah man that sucks. Probably made all the more depressing by the fact that the neighbours are being idiots about it. How were you to know? I bet it has been hard to stay positive about it all mate. When things keep getting thrown at you it must make you think is it worth it. That said, Im sure the finished extension will make a big difference to lifestyle etc. when its finished and one day (hopefully not too far in the future) you will look back on it all and not be bitter. Sometimes it does feel like everythings going against you.

 

[snowhead]

You will definitely have to have the gas pipe moved.

And the best you'll get from UK Power is to dig the footings deeper so the concrete is below the cables. (and below the earthenware pipe and the water pipe.)
But I'd say UKPN will definitely say no to them passing through your building.
Expect a very large quote for moving them and a long wait for the work to be done if you do agree.

 

[davesparks]

It looks like the gas pipe has recently been repaired

 

[christopher c]

Thanks Snowhead. I really hope it doesnt come to having to move the electricity although you may be right. Id be happy enough to dig the footing lower if needed. When you say "very large quote" you scare me. What sort of price did you have in your mind or is that just an impossible question?

Id be happy for the electricity to stay within our boundaries if needed but just dont want to be skinned alive for cash to have to move them...

 

[christopher c]

It looks like the gas pipe has recently been repaired

Ha ha. Yes, it was indeed. It had a brief meeting with my fork. Sad times but all patched up.

 

[snowhead]

UK Power Networks - Move electrical equipment with an underground power supply

Example of costs relating to moving a single cable supplying your own property.
The cables you have exposed will be supplying a local businesses and or multiple properties in the area.

 

[christopher c]

UK Power Networks - Move electrical equipment with an underground power supply

Example of costs relating to moving a single cable supplying your own property.
The cables you have exposed will be supplying a local businesses and or multiple properties in the area.

Thanks for the link snowhead. That's good info. Presumably the fact that the pipes I have found are services a number of homes (not mine) the cost will be a lot higher?

 

[PEG]

Ha ha. Yes, it was indeed. It had a brief meeting with my fork. Sad times but all patched up.

Hi dude,you need to sort that,and posting pics and info on a forum,running where it is...not ideal...

Your cables,should not be bridged or built over,before you research any agreement,that was undertaken,when they were installed.

If you are lucky,you may be able to do this initially,using previous search documents...the DNO will have these,somewhere,but by then your cat is out of the bag...

Another consideration,is any permissions/covenants,applicable,if your property is leasehold.

I realise i have sounded like a jonah...but these are issues i have been involved in,over the last 30 years,and on many occasions,i have avoided involving our purveyors of buzz and flammable wind,as they can prove to be,"obtuse" (watch Shawshank...) but one has to be mindful of possible future snags.

I had a job which almost mirrors yours,and by way of impatient proprietors,the build progressed,due to structural calcs,for sleeves and lintels,also an agreement "build-over" clause,giving the utilities "immediate access" for maintenance/emergency purposes...which equated to "Hello sir,we've come to take your structure down..."

I know it's not a perfect world,and i have done this type of fannying,on my own properties,just bear in mind,some of the biggest "dog-ups",are carried out by folks employed contractors,who do what they fancy,to "get above ground",and i have seen and rectified a few....

This will not mitigate against the enraged utilities,coming after the employer of said contractors,when the porridge goes cold...:smile5:

 

[christopher c]

Thanks for the reply peg. I know for a fact that the water and gas need to be diverted round the extension. I have spoken with the water and gas board already. I'm not sure what you are getting at mate. I will speak to building inspection team from the council and get in touch with UKPN as advised by guys on here. There's not really a question of bodging it, I just wanted a few opinions on the matter from people who may have had experience.

 

[PEG]

Thanks for the reply peg. I know for a fact that the water and gas need to be diverted round the extension. I have spoken with the water and gas board already. I'm not sure what you are getting at mate. I will speak to building inspection team from the council and get in touch with UKPN as advised by guys on here. There's not really a question of bodging it, I just wanted a few opinions on the matter from people who may have had experience.

Hi fella, there is no question,regarding the repair on your gas pipe,it is,and will be classed as an "non-authorized repair or modification" by Transco,or similar,if they come out.

What i was "getting at",was an attempt at hinting to the dangers of such over building,on an already incorrectly repaired gas main.

The logic behind this,is any future leak,due to damage or failure of a DIY repair,can cause a slow,insipid build up of gas,INSIDE the dwelling.

This can occur years later,but the responsibility,will initially rest with yourself.

I certainly do not want you to assume i am giving you a hard time,on the contrary,i would favour assisting your good self,over the utilities,on every occasion.

That said,it is only my opinion,and as you stated at the end of your post,i would fit in to the category of folk having experience in these matters.

When it comes to assessing blame on mishaps in the gas job,the investigators show no favour. Indeed,Transco themselves have fell foul of poor standards and shoddy work.

You can Google the bungalow explosion where they were fined 2m,for such infractions.

Hope you get sorted,and don't take anything i have said,as a slight against yourself. Cheers

 

[christopher c]

Hi fella, there is no question,regarding the repair on your gas pipe,it is,and will be classed as an "non-authorized repair or modification" by Transco,or similar,if they come out.

What i was "getting at",was an attempt at hinting to the dangers of such over building,on an already incorrectly repaired gas main.

The logic behind this,is any future leak,due to damage or failure of a DIY repair,can cause a slow,insipid build up of gas,INSIDE the dwelling.

This can occur years later,but the responsibility,will initially rest with yourself.

I certainly do not want you to assume i am giving you a hard time,on the contrary,i would favour assisting your good self,over the utilities,on every occasion.

That said,it is only my opinion,and as you stated at the end of your post,i would fit in to the category of folk having experience in these matters.

When it comes to assessing blame on mishaps in the gas job,the investigators show no favour. Indeed,Transco themselves have fell foul of poor standards and shoddy work.

You can Google the bungalow explosion where they were fined 2m,for such infractions.

Hope you get sorted,and don't take anything i have said,as a slight against yourself. Cheers

Hi Peg, thanks for the reply buddy. With regards to the gas pipe I probably need to just clarify that I did not repair that my self. (Wouldn't know where to even start!) that was repaired by southern gas yesterday. They also told me that the gas and water will need to be routed round the new extension. They seemed to think that this wouldn't be a big job as it will be a pp to pp connection and its not a big distance. Either way I need to apply for a diversion.

 

[PEG]

AAAhhh! Sorry bud,just assumed it was inner tube and jubilee clip time....groovy.

Gas Co. can try ones patience....one of my most memorable run-ins was regarding my own parents extension,that i did...

Weeks and weeks of non-returned calls,lost e-mails,contradicting statements,followed by site meeting,threat of prosecution,demand for £800 to start a company "free of charge" 2.5m or less meter move....

ANOTHER demand for £400...mains team drilled through with no pilot,and blew 12" crater on inside blockwork,meter fitter mounted plate using frame fixings (had to re-fix myself).....and insult to injury,their "approved" gas fitter,who only had to connect 2m of 22mm from meter to existing,set fire to my lovely new 8x2 roof timbers.

I was a bus ride from happy...

THEN,they returned my dads' two cheques for £1200,to me,in my name,and swapped our names,so my bill at home,up the road,came with his name on it....you could be watching an episode of the chuckle bros.

I could write a book...and now when i deal with them,it is strictly on my own terms.

Now i need to meditate in my herbal bath...:blush5:

 

[christopher c]

Hi guys, just thought Id check in to let you know how Ive been getting on with all this. I called out Southern Electric and they sent two old timers out. They were great and had a look at the pipes and confirmed that they were High Voltage. 2 x 11,000 volts and 1x 7000 Volt. They went on to explain that rerouting them would not be an option because of cost. (They thought it would cost £30,000+) With that in mind, they said that the best bet would be to bridge the pipes/cables but to make sure I do a really good job of it.

I consulted my local councils building control and made them aware of the cables and sought guidance from them about how they wanted it done in order for them to be happy and pass it off.

Soooo, I had to build a box round the cables. 3 inch cavity round the pipes. (Sides and top) The box was made with 18mm structural ply using 4 inch x 2 inch battens. Seriously sturdy although of course one day it will eventually rot away.

Once the box was made and the BCO was happy with the box I made, he went on to explain that he wanted sheets of structural steel mesh in the trenches. He also specified that he wanted B785 mesh which is high tensile steel and very strong. We got two layers of it in the long trench where the cables were predominantly. We also managed to get a total of 9 inches of concrete in to that section on top of the box. (He specified a minimum of 6 inches was needed if B785 mesh was used but I wanted to be safe so went overkill) The mesh was cantilevered by mesh in the adjoining trenches which will help to add extra support when the box does eventually rot away.

I have the builders arriving next week to start the job which is exciting. It has taken along time and has been quite stressful getting to this stage as Ive been doing the work thus far myself. Ill be happy to hand over at this stage and watch the building go up.

Ill get some pics up of the work I had to carry out in due course.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Thanks for letting us all know. Hope all goes well with builders and be sure to post up some pics :wacko:

 

[christopher c]

Photo of the box made up to cover the high voltage cables.

 

[christopher c]

Foundtaions prepared with B785 High Tensile Mesh. Please ignore the Yellow Gas pipe. At the time this photo was taken the pipe was dead as I had the gas run around the foundations. I was going to pull the old pipe through but was worried Id damage the walls of the founations and pulled loads of soil into the trenches.

 

[christopher c]

Layers of B785 mesh laid in the long trench above the cables. Bricks were later removed once I found a better way of spacing the layers of mesh. (Needed to be 2 inches apart)

 

[christopher c]

Photo showing the mesh separation. I also put in some mesh up against the sides of the box for extra strength in this corner as you can see.

 

[Midwest]

Crikey Christopher, where do those cables go to and from? Be careful when your planting your spring bulbs!

 

[Octopus]

View attachment 30677Photo showing the mesh separation. I also put in some mesh up against the sides of the box for extra strength in this corner as you can see.

Have building control approved this as pet your picture? The mesh does not look like it's constructed correctly and the footings don't look deep enough?