Do socket outlets in a Pub need to be RCD/RCBO protected!

[MerlinGremlin]

What are peoples thoughts on this, should socket outlets in the general public areas be RCD/RCBO protected? I believe they do and have put them down as a C2 on a recent EICR but recently got a phone call to say it's a C3!

 

[buzzlightyear]

merlin Gering ,next time you do EICR take some picture and show your Q/S.
him your findings.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It doesn't matter whether it excuses compliance with current Regulations.
The fact remains that the IET are never going to say that a situation which was deemed safe in previous editions is now unsafe. (The legal ramifications would be enormous.)

BS7671 requires us to make observation on non-compliances which may give rise to danger.
If the Regs. do not consider a non-compliance which complied at the time of construction to be unsafe, how can you then state the situation is potentially dangerous?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Looks like the thunder has arrived.
At least here it has.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Looks like the thunder has arrived.
At least here it has.

not here!

 

[Ian1981]

the Q/S should be their with the persons who is testing it .and over seeing the testing

Not very practical the inspector should be able to carry out this kind of work unsupervised or shouldn't be doing it

 

[davesparks]

It doesn't matter whether it excuses compliance with current Regulations.
The fact remains that the IET are never going to say that a situation which was deemed safe in previous editions is now unsafe. (The legal ramifications would be enormous.)

BS7671 requires us to make observation on non-compliances which may give rise to danger.
If the Regs. do not consider a non-compliance which complied at the time of construction to be unsafe, how can you then state the situation is potentially dangerous?

Well they have, there are many things which were once required by the regulations which are no longer compliant, fused neutrals being one example.

If the regs do not now consider an item which complied at the time to be unsafe now then it is not unsafe, however if the regulations do now consider it to be unsafe then it should be coded.

Fused neutrals complied with a previous edition.
Unfused supplies complied with a previous edition.
Bare conductors on cleats complied with a previous edition.
Green being used for L3 complied with a previous edition.
Open fronted switchgear complied with a previous edition.
Bare conductors encased in a wooden moulding complied with a previous edition.

The point is that if an item does not comply with current regulations and it is immediately dangerous then it is a C1
If an item does not comply with current regulations and is potentially dangerous it is a C2
If an item does not comply with current regulations and an improvement can be recommended for safety based on current regulations then it is a C3

 

[Risteard]

As for determining a code, that depends on when they were installed

No it doesn't. That would be ridiculous. When they were installed does not materially alter their safety now.

 

[freddo]

Bare conductors on cleats complied with a previous edition...
Bare conductors encased in a wooden moulding complied with a previous edition.

What editions permitted bare conductors on cleats and in wooden containment? Single insulated conductors yes, but bare conductors?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

What editions permitted bare conductors on cleats and in wooden containment? Single insulated conductors yes, but bare conductors?

Bare conductors are allowed now, as is wooden containment.
Whether there is a prohibition against using both at the same time, I don't know?

 

[davesparks]

What editions permitted bare conductors on cleats and in wooden containment? Single insulated conductors yes, but bare conductors?

Off the top of my head I think it's in the 9th edition that I've seen it.
Just to clarify I'm talking about bare conductors on cleats which are not placed out of reach or behind barriers etc as is now required.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Hmmm.
Says bare conductors on cleats which is still allowed.
Then says bare conductors encased in wooden mouldings.
As far as I am aware, wooden backed accessories and wooden containment are still allowed.
Not sure about the bare conductors encased in wooden mouldings?

 

[freddo]

Cool! Modern wiring is so boring.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Lol, you can purchase modern day wooden fronted accessories:
Classic 2 Gang 13Amp Switched Socket in Solid Oak [CXC06-2-OBK] - £15.99 - http://www.switchtowood.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=93&cPath=4&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4bTFoMKV1QIVpL_tCh1mmgDJEAQYASABEgKdyfD_BwE#googlebase

 

[Toneyz]

If an installation has been installed to a previous addition of BS7671 eg 15th/16th and still complies with that edition should not make the installation warrant a C1 (danger present .risk of injury immediate action required ) or C2 (potentially dangerous) the standard of additional safety of which electrical installations are installed to has changed/improved .Other regulations eg H & S acts may come into play and require RCD protection. I can't see what Part P has to do with a EICR however if I am correct it comes into play if certain work is undertaken when the domestic and business premises share the same meter.

for what reason

 

[davesparks]

Lol, you can purchase modern day wooden fronted accessories:
Classic 2 Gang 13Amp Switched Socket in Solid Oak [CXC06-2-OBK] - £15.99 - http://www.switchtowood.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=93&cPath=4&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4bTFoMKV1QIVpL_tCh1mmgDJEAQYASABEgKdyfD_BwE#googlebase

Great, but I don't quite see how that relates to the current topic?