How many eicr in a day

[magnoliafan89]

Hi guys whats your take of how many EICRs can be done properly in a day average of 5 to 8 circuits ranging from 1 bed flats to 3 bed houses?? This would also include travel and also doing any repairs whilst there?

 

[UNG]

Well I was dubious and raised my rate to £20 to test the water.. My customer s dropped me like a bag of hot potatoes and I only recovered work when I dropped my prices again..in fact I never got some of my customers back...a local housing association being one of them

Probably not real customers then and more likely a bunch of chancers looking for someone cheap to take the fall when something goes wrong

a local housing association being one of them and as previously mentioned they now use their own maintenance staff to carry out testing so I'm unlikely to get that work back.

Probably found it is even cheaper to do it in house, would imagine their employees would be hung out to dry if something goes wrong as I doubt the managers would back them up

I suppose what I'm saying is its fine to charge the high rates of you have the customers who have pockets feel enough to pay it, but for the likes of me and numerous others in this trade we have to take the money our customers can afford

What you need to do is leave these parasitic customers to someone else they will have the money to pay you and any others properly it is just that they choose not to while you and others are happy to fund their champagne lifestyle. I don't believe that around 15 miles from the centre of the great metropolis and a self employed tradesman can't command more than £10/hr you really sound like you have been groomed or brainwashed by some unscrupulous buyer to bow down and accept this, we keep being told that slavery ended over a century ago but you seem to be saying this isn't so

No I think there are a few up and down the country.

Found 2 so far one in Essex and the other in Kent

 

[Brian Taylor]

There are a few on here who have passed state retirement age and are still working.

Maybe they would be better placed to give advice.

It does change things a little, though it shouldn't.

Have you approached letting agents for EICR's and small works? It won't be great money but surely better than you are getting at the moment.

yes have had contact with a letting agency who expressed interest but no jobs as yet

 

[Grant1987]

Probably not real customers then and more likely a bunch of chancers looking for someone cheap to take the fall when something goes wrong



Probably found it is even cheaper to do it in house, would imagine their employees would be hung out to dry if something goes wrong as I doubt the managers would back them up



What you need to do is leave these parasitic customers to someone else they will have the money to pay you and any others properly it is just that they choose not to while you and others are happy to fund their champagne lifestyle. I don't believe that around 15 miles from the centre of the great metropolis and a self employed tradesman can't command more than £10/hr you really sound like you have been groomed or brainwashed by some unscrupulous buyer to bow down and accept this, we keep being told that slavery ended over a century ago but you seem to be saying this isn't so


Found 2 so far one in Essex and the other in Kent

Hi Brian I’ve just read all your messages absolutely ridiculous no way would you have agreed to doing an EICR for £40? Did you say you live in west wales? I’m from South Wales valleys and I find it hard to believe I’ve done EICR’s in west wales and charged hell of a lot more than that especially due to the lack of electricians in the area.

 

[Brian Taylor]

There are a few on here who have passed state retirement age and are still working.

Maybe they would be better placed to give advice.

It does change things a little, though it shouldn't.

Have you approached letting agents for EICR's and small works? It won't be great money but surely better than you are getting at the moment.

Hi Brian I’ve just read all your messages absolutely ridiculous no way would you have agreed to doing an EICR for £40? Did you say you live in west wales? I’m from South Wales valleys and I find it hard to believe I’ve done EICR’s in west wales and charged hell of a lot more than that especially due to the lack of electricians in the area.

No I'm from the South East and I think we have the opposite situation here in that we have too many tradesmen chasing too little work

 

[1Justin]

I've never managed an EICR in less than a full day. I can't see how it's possible. The one I just did, with hundreds of little and bigger fixes throughout, (paid for separately), took three weeks.

Anyone doing EICR's might do well to listen to the Grenfell tower enquiry podcast. The scale of the complacency of many many involved ran deep. All implicated had variations on a number of themes: That a safety requirement was someone else's consideration, was being lent on by their boss, had no funds to spend, was simply ignorant, or wasn't ignorant at all, but thought it would never happen.

 

[Brian Taylor]

I've never managed an EICR in less than a full day. I can't see how it's possible. The one I just did, with hundreds of little and bigger fixes throughout, (paid for separately), took three weeks.

Anyone doing EICR's might do well to listen to the Grenfell tower enquiry podcast. The scale of the complacency of many many involved ran deep. All implicated had variations on a number of themes: That a safety requirement was someone else's consideration, was being lent on by their boss, had no funds to spend, was simply ignorant, or wasn't ignorant at all, but thought it would never happen.

I'm guessing that it was a very large building you were testing .

 

[Brian Taylor]

I'm guessing that it was a very large building you were testing .

I'm guessing that it was a very large building you were testing .

A large testing organisation I once worked for required 50 circuits a day so 3 weeks is 15 days which equalls 750 circuits so yes I'm guessing a reasonable sized installation .

 

[nicebutdim]

A large testing organisation I once worked for required 50 circuits a day...

I'm not an electrician, so am asking as Joe Public...

What standard of testing could I expect from someone who needed to get through 50 circuits per day? Even working 10 hour days, that averages to 5 circuits per hour.

Let's take a 1990s 3 bed semi, with a total of 8 ways utilised in the board - that would require you to be on site, complete all testing and be well on your way to the next job within 2 hours. At £10 per hour I'd be delighted with my £20 invoice, but how much detail would I expect to learn about the electrical installation? Not much I suspect, beyond confirmation of continuity, earthing, bonding and a quick visual inspection. Doesn't seem like you'd have any time to identify other potential issues provided resistances came up trumps when tested. Surely an "Electrical Installation Condition Report" should include as much information as can realistically be obtained, rather than resistance measurements and visual inspection of that which is on display.

 

[Brian Taylor]

I'm not an electrician, so am asking as Joe Public...

What standard of testing could I expect from someone who needed to get through 50 circuits per day? Even working 10 hour days, that averages to 5 circuits per hour.

Let's take a 1990s 3 bed semi, with a total of 8 ways utilised in the board - that would require you to be on site, complete all testing and be well on your way to the next job within 2 hours. At £10 per hour I'd be delighted with my £20 invoice, but how much detail would I expect to learn about the electrical installation? Not much I suspect, beyond confirmation of continuity, earthing, bonding and a quick visual inspection. Doesn't seem like you'd have any time to identify other potential issues provided resistances came up trumps when tested. Surely an "Electrical Installation Condition Report" should include as much information as can realistically be obtained, rather than resistance measurements and visual inspection of that which is on display.

As you say you're not an electrician and as such don't fully understand what's important and what s not. I'm sure you must realise that anyone carrying out these tests do it for money..that is their prime concern...to carry out a periodic test and inspection to the letter of the regulations would take so long that the vast majority of people would bulk at the cost, as such the vast majority of testers will carry out an abridged version with only the most important points listed. The use of the limitations section helps the tester to limit the amount of work required e.g. Many will place a limit of 10% testing ie 1in every 10 circuits are tested..to do otherwise subjects the customers to the potential of massive costs of (in The case of some of the rates quoted in this site) many thousands of pounds, and of course a problem for the sparky in trying to get paid for the work . We all have to be sensible and accept that anywhere near a 100% test is not achievable at a reasonable commercial cost
[automerge]1595711700[/automerge]

As you say you're not an electrician and as such don't fully understand what's important and what s not. I'm sure you must realise that anyone carrying out these tests do it for money..that is their prime concern...to carry out a periodic test and inspection to the letter of the regulations would take so long that the vast majority of people would bulk at the cost, as such the vast majority of testers will carry out an abridged version with only the most important points listed. The use of the limitations section helps the tester to limit the amount of work required e.g. Many will place a limit of 10% testing ie 1in every 10 circuits are tested..to do otherwise subjects the customers to the potential of massive costs of (in The case of some of the rates quoted in this site) many thousands of pounds, and of course a problem for the sparky in trying to get paid for the work . We all have to be sensible and accept that anywhere near a 100% test is not achievable at a reasonable commercial cost

I'm sorry if I've dissolutioned you but that's the way the cookie crumbles and testing a large installation would be like painting the Fourth Bridge..it would never end .

 

[nicebutdim]

As you say you're not an electrician and as such don't fully understand what's important and what s not. I'm sure you must realise that anyone carrying out these tests do it for money..that is their prime concern...to carry out a periodic test and inspection to the letter of the regulations would take so long that the vast majority of people would bulk at the cost, as such the vast majority of testers will carry out an abridged version with only the most important points listed. The use of the limitations section helps the tester to limit the amount of work required e.g. Many will place a limit of 10% testing ie 1in every 10 circuits are tested..to do otherwise subjects the customers to the potential of massive costs of (in The case of some of the rates quoted in this site) many thousands of pounds, and of course a problem for the sparky in trying to get paid for the work . We all have to be sensible and accept that anywhere near a 100% test is not achievable at a reasonable commercial cost
[automerge]1595711700[/automerge]

I'm sorry if I've dissolutioned you but that's the way the cookie crumbles and testing a large installation would be like painting the Fourth Bridge..it would never end .

I'm not disillusioned, but based on this thread (and others) I would ensure that the level of testing was agreed upon before contracting anyone to undertake such an inspection, so that the resulting report was up to the sort of standard I expected.

I'm not sure what exactly is covered by the definition of "periodic inspection and testing", so would refer back to the thread title which specifically references "EICR".


Electrical safety first state the five main aims of an EICR as being:

1. Record the results of the inspection and testing to make sure the electrical installation is safe to be used until the next inspection (following any work needed to make it safe)
2. Find any damage and wear and tear that might affect safety, and report it
3. Find any parts of the electrical installation that do not meet the IET Wiring Regulations
4. Help find anything that may cause electric shocks and high temperatures
5. Provide and{sic} important record of the installation at the time of the inspection, and for inspection testing in the future.

Obviously I understand that there will be limitations on any EICR produced and that it is unrealistic to test at every single point and impossible to inspect every inch of the installation as homeowners generally aren't going to permit an inspector to smash holes in their walls. That being said, I still fail to see how 50 circuits per day can permit any useful level of testing or inspection in a domestic situation. Which circuit do you choose? The lighting circuit with no CPC or that RFC with spurs wired off spurs? The former will be immediately apparent, but the later will not if it doesn't happen to be the lucky circuit on the day of testing. In short; a 2 hour EICR will likely fail to meet requirements 1-4 in the above list.

I'm not sure if we're at cross purposes and you're posting about large commercial installations or if you would really provide a domestic EICR with such a low level of detail as to effectively render the report useless. Think of all those issues you've had to rectify when fixing faults in domestic premises and consider how many would go unnoticed in a 2 hour EICR.

 

[Brian Taylor]

I'm not disillusioned, but based on this thread (and others) I would ensure that the level of testing was agreed upon before contracting anyone to undertake such an inspection, so that the resulting report was up to the sort of standard I expected.

I'm not sure what exactly is covered by the definition of "periodic inspection and testing", so would refer back to the thread title which specifically references "EICR".


Electrical safety first state the five main aims of an EICR as being:

1. Record the results of the inspection and testing to make sure the electrical installation is safe to be used until the next inspection (following any work needed to make it safe)
2. Find any damage and wear and tear that might affect safety, and report it
3. Find any parts of the electrical installation that do not meet the IET Wiring Regulations
4. Help find anything that may cause electric shocks and high temperatures
5. Provide and{sic} important record of the installation at the time of the inspection, and for inspection testing in the future.

Obviously I understand that there will be limitations on any EICR produced and that it is unrealistic to test at every single point and impossible to inspect every inch of the installation as homeowners generally aren't going to permit an inspector to smash holes in their walls. That being said, I still fail to see how 50 circuits per day can permit any useful level of testing or inspection in a domestic situation. Which circuit do you choose? The lighting circuit with no CPC or that RFC with spurs wired off spurs? The former will be immediately apparent, but the later will not if it doesn't happen to be the lucky circuit on the day of testing. In short; a 2 hour EICR will likely fail to meet requirements 1-4 in the above list.

I'm not sure if we're at cross purposes and you're posting about large commercial installations or if you would really provide a domestic EICR with such a low level of detail as to effectively render the report useless. Think of all those issues you've had to rectify when fixing faults in domestic premises and consider how many would go unnoticed in a 2 hour EICR.

in answer to your questions a Periodic test and inspection is the same as a EICR is just that some "new brush" decided to change the name some time back. Yes of course I'm referring to large installations when I'm referring to the 10% limitation but you have to be aware that limitations can/will be applied to domestic installations e.g no inspection of cabling in roof or flooring voids or no testing made at accessories above 3 meters. This last point is in some way due to insurance restrictions where working off ladders is prohibited or at least discouraged under H&S considerations. These limitations may mean that conditions that may be seen as undesirable may go undetected e.g. Rodent damaged cabling however if the cabling passes the insulation test the tester has done his job and cannot be blamed for any consequences arising from such a defect

 

[David Prosser]

As you say you're not an electrician and as such don't fully understand what's important and what s not. I'm sure you must realise that anyone carrying out these tests do it for money..that is their prime concern...to carry out a periodic test and inspection to the letter of the regulations would take so long that the vast majority of people would bulk at the cost, as such the vast majority of testers will carry out an abridged version with only the most important points listed. The use of the limitations section helps the tester to limit the amount of work required e.g. Many will place a limit of 10% testing ie 1in every 10 circuits are tested..to do otherwise subjects the customers to the potential of massive costs of (in The case of some of the rates quoted in this site) many thousands of pounds, and of course a problem for the sparky in trying to get paid for the work . We all have to be sensible and accept that anywhere near a 100% test is not achievable at a reasonable commercial cost
[automerge]1595711700[/automerge]

I'm sorry if I've dissolutioned you but that's the way the cookie crumbles and testing a large installation would be like painting the Fourth Bridge..it would never end .

What a load of nonsense limitation used to only test 10% of circuits !! No wonder you are only charging £40 an EICR on a lot of properties you would only test one circuit.

As some one who regularly uses electrical contractors to carry out EICR I can say quite clearly that only test any percentage of circuits is not acceptable.

 

[Brian Taylor]

What a load of nonsense limitation used to only test 10% of circuits !! No wonder you are only charging £40 an EICR on a lot of properties you would only test one circuit.

As some one who regularly uses electrical contractors to carry out EICR I can say quite clearly that only test any percentage of circuits is not acceptable.

I think you've only read part of the reply...secondly you state that you regularly use electrical contractors which rather suggests that you are not an electrical bid yourself..as such i doubt if you are fully aware of how testing is carried out...I can assure you you will not be getting a 100% test ..it is simply uneconomic

 

[David Prosser]

The use of the limitations section helps the tester to limit the amount of work required e.g. Many will place a limit of 10% testing ie 1in every 10 circuits are tested..


I have read all your post. You are clearly stating you only test 1 in 10 circuits.

If you look back through I think you will see I clearly know exactly what is involve with testing and inspecting, and much more importantly I know exactly what I expect and what gets paid for.

 

[Mike Johnson]

How can you fill out the "Distribution Board Details" sheet in the EICR if you don't test all the circuits?

 

[Brian Taylor]

How can you fill out the "Distribution Board Details" sheet in the EICR if you don't test all the circuits?

this is easy simply put ' not tested in the circuit description and N/V in the other boxes.

 

[richy3333]

@Brian Taylor please could you describe what your inspection of the installation involves for a £40 EICR? Lots of talk of testing from everyone but nothing about inspection?

 

[Brian Taylor]

@Brian Taylor please could you describe what your inspection of the installation involves for a £40 EICR? Lots of talk of testing from everyone but nothing about inspection?

yes certainly..the inspection part of a test is exactly what it says your are looking to determine any departures from a set standard, this begins at the onset of the test with a check of the installation to determine that it's safe to test e.g. Any bare cabling is made safe. We need to know that everything is secure and not about to fall off the wall and that enclosures are intact, not damaged and
of the correct IP rating also that fittings and accessories are correct for the area/zone installed not to mention. Correct rating/ short circuit rating of protective devices,switches and isolators. In short we are checking the installation against the relevant parts of the tick box sheets in the cert. I think what comes with experience is the ability to determine what is important and what is not, something that the younger sparks(and a fair few older ones) find great difficulty in doing. By way of an example i would not automatically condem an installation simply because it has red and black wiring..what difference does the colour of the cables make to electricity?...as long as it passes an insulation test the tester has done his job and might merit only a passing comment. As an aside I'm currently trying to find the death rates due to electrocution for the last few years....I'm guessing that deaths due to other causes e.g. Road traffic accidents it will be very much higher as yet I've found a figure for 1972 which suggests that 17 people died as a result of fixed wiring installations. I make the fixed wiring point simply because although 1875 deaths were recorded 85% of these were due to faulty appliances and other causes....just found a figure for deaths due to road accident these being 3689

 

[DPG]

I'm sure nobody would condemn an installation for having red/black colours!!!

 

[davesparks]

I'm sure nobody would condemn an installation for having red/black colours!!!

One of our regular customers had their EICR done by a testing company, amongst other things they gave red and black colours a C3 with a recommendation to oversleeve with brown and blue at all terminations!

They also have C3's for no isolators being installed for equipment which is so close to the DB that there isn't physically space to get an isolator in between them.