240V Bathroom extractor fan in zone 1?

T

Toad

My electrician says he can't sign off the installation in my new loft conversion because the 240V extractor fan is in zone 1 (directly above the shower), and hence violates the Regs. He says the easiest option is to replace it with a 12V one, and locate the transformer remotely.

Disappointed, I phoned Vent Axia and Manrose to find out what 12V fans might be suitable, explaining my predicament. They both said the 240V fan is permitted in zone 1 under the 17th Edition Regs, provided the fan is IPX4 rated (which it is) and also that the circuit is RCD protected (which is it, since I have RCBOs on all circuits).

Please can someone confirm one way or the other. I don't want to embarass the electrician (NICEIC qualified), or myself, so I need to have reliable information on this, but obviously I don't want to change the fan if I don't have to!
 
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what is the height from the shower tray to the fan? could be it's just outside zone 1.IMO, if the manufacturers instructions say suitable for zone 1, then it is.
 
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Hi and welcome...

Surely your electrician fitted it?

That aside, no need to worry about embarrassing him, if you have the instructions or any reference material proving it, show it to him.
 
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What he said ^^^^^ .... Loft extensions tend to be a bit short on height (but check that it's actually in zone 1....it could be outside the zones anyway). If the manuf says it's suitable it is. If it isn't suitable why did he fit it :p
 
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so what you need is a copy of the fan's instructions from the manufacturer saying it's suitable for zone 1. then he can't argue. you should be able to download .
 
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701.55 (v) . ventilation equipment. provided it is suitable for installation in zone 1, according to the manufacturers instructions.
 
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telectrix said:
701.55 (v) . ventilation equipment. provided it is suitable for installation in zone 1, according to the manufacturers instructions.
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Just beat me to it Tel :). Toad, if you do a Google search on the make and model of your fan it will say if its adequate for zone 1. If this was my bathroom I would change it to a 12V but I don't have to pay for it fitting.
 
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Toad said:
Murdoch, surely there will be adequate protection against shock if the electric circuit is protected by the RCD?
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There will be adequate protection by RCD, IP and double insulation, absolutely nothing wrong with this setup but we still fit inline extract, such a better job!
 
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It should state clearly in the Installation instructions which zones it is suitable for. The manufacturers instructions take precedence over any rules and regulations.

Cheers..........Howard
 
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Have just accessed the manufacturer's instructions. All it says is that the wiring must comply with current IEE Regs. The fan is Vent-Axia Lo-Carbon dMEV Unit, IPX4 rated, 240V, and located in zone 1. Just to repeat, the cirucit is RCD protected (actually, RCBO in my case).

My original question still stands: can I keep this fan, or must it be replaced with a 12V one to make it satisfy the regs?
 
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it wont be alot more to just buy a 12v why cant you take the 230v back and exchange it? seems mixed opinions and it might be less hassel in the long run for you so you can get it signed off!
 
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Toad said:
Have just accessed the manufacturer's instructions. All it says is that the wiring must comply with current IEE Regs. The fan is Vent-Axia Lo-Carbon dMEV Unit, IPX4 rated, 240V, and located in zone 1. Just to repeat, the cirucit is RCD protected (actually, RCBO in my case).

My original question still stands: can I keep this fan, or must it be replaced with a 12V one to make it satisfy the regs?
Click to expand...

Keep it if you want.
It complies with the regulations as long as it's IPX4 or IPX5 if there's a chance of water jets hitting it.
Tell your electrician to check table 8.1 in the OSG.
 
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Toad said:
Have just accessed the manufacturer's instructions. All it says is that the wiring must comply with current IEE Regs. The fan is Vent-Axia Lo-Carbon dMEV Unit, IPX4 rated, 240V, and located in zone 1. Just to repeat, the cirucit is RCD protected (actually, RCBO in my case).

My original question still stands: can I keep this fan, or must it be replaced with a 12V one to make it satisfy the regs?
Click to expand...

Toad, on a forum, you get a mixture of fact and opinion.

The facts are that the fan by way of it's IP rating does comply, it's also double insulated and RCD protected so if you want to keep it there, you can.

The opinion is that an inline fan or SELV unit is better but seeing as your fan is fitted and working.....
 
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didnt the elctrician fit the fan? if not whys he signing off someone elses work? if he wont budge and its correctly rated just remove the fan and refit after its signed off or get himm to mention it in the observations that he refused connection.
 
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Toad said:
My original question still stands: can I keep this fan, or must it be replaced with a 12V one to make it satisfy the regs?
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Yes you can and no it doesn't
There thats an answer without advise or preference

Now here is my question
How is an electrician disputing signing off an installation, when the installation certificate is generated by that person, who designed, constructed, and inspected the installation, which as a consequence, he then signs as compliant with the regs on that certificate
 
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IQ Electrical said:
Toad, on a forum, you get a mixture of fact and opinion.

The facts are that the fan by way of it's IP rating does comply, it's also double insulated and RCD protected so if you want to keep it there, you can.

The opinion is that an inline fan or SELV unit is better but seeing as your fan is fitted and working.....
Click to expand...

Thank you IQ Electrical. This is just the kind of response I am looking for. In order to comply with the Regs, either I HAVE to replace the fan, or I DON'T, and at this stage I'm really not interested in opinions about the merits or otherwise of 240V vs 12V, or in-line vs non-in-line, etc. The point is the fan is installed, so either the installation complies, or it does not.

Thanks everyone for your input. I will contact the electrician then let you know what he says!
 
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Des 56 said:
Yes you can and no it doesn't
There thats an answer without advise or preference

Now here is my question
How is an electrician disputing signing off an installation, when the installation certificate is generated by that person, who designed, constructed, and inspected the installation, which as a consequence, he then signs as compliant with the regs on that certificate
Click to expand...

Print the above quote off and ask your electrician to read it. Either he replaces the fan at a cost to him or he signs off the work as it stands.
 
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ezzzekiel said:
didnt the elctrician fit the fan? if not whys he signing off someone elses work? .....
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No, the electrician didn't fit the fan, nor did he install most of the electrics. The builder installed the fan. However, the two of them work in unison, and the electrician makes the final connections etc after checking out the builder's work at different stages. In effect, the builder works under the supervision of the electrician. Of course, the electrician is taking full responsibility for signing off the work, but that is his own decision based on years of experience gained from the two of them working together.

In rare instances, as in this case, the electrician has to correct or undo something that the builder did wrongly. But in this case it seems the electrician is wrong. I am the householder, and have a good relationship with both of them, so I am in on their discussions. I was the one that chose the fan, the builder fitted it, and the electrician then came along to sign off everything electrical. He pulled the builder for installing the wrong fan, and says he'll be back when it's been replaced.
 
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Toad said:
No, the electrician didn't fit the fan, nor did he install most of the electrics. The builder installed the fan. However, the two of them work in unison, and the electrician makes the final connections etc after checking out the builder's work at different stages. In effect, the builder works under the supervision of the electrician. Of course, the electrician is taking full responsibility for signing off the work, but that is his own decision based on years of experience gained from the two of them working together.

In rare instances, as in this case, the electrician has to correct or undo something that the builder did wrongly. I am the householder, and have a good relationship with both of them, so I am in on their discussions. I was the one that chose the fan, the builder fitted it, and the electrician then came along to sign off everything electrical. But the electrician has to revisit since he says, wrongly it seems, that the fan must be replaced. Yes, the additional cost should be bourne by the builder, but only if the builder has made an error in the first place.
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:nono:
 
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Toad said:
No, the electrician didn't fit the fan, nor did he install most of the electrics. The builder installed the fan. However, the two of them work in unison, and the electrician makes the final connections etc after checking out the builder's work at different stages. In effect, the builder works under the supervision of the electrician. Of course, the electrician is taking full responsibility for signing off the work, but that is his own decision based on years of experience gained from the two of them working together.

In rare instances, as in this case, the electrician has to correct or undo something that the builder did wrongly. I am the householder, and have a good relationship with both of them, so I am in on their discussions. I was the one that chose the fan, the builder fitted it, and the electrician then came along to sign off everything electrical. But the electrician has to revisit since he says, wrongly it seems, that the fan must be replaced.
Click to expand...

None of that matters. The responsibility lies with the spark who is signing it off.

It would be the same if a customer bought the materials for a job I was on and I used my apprentice or anyone for that matter to install the gear. If it is incorrect, It would be my responsibility to rectify it.
 
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What sometimes happens in situations not a lot different to the one described
A builder takes on a construction job
The householder or the builder says he will do the electrics

End of job, the council then want an Eic, off a part p registered spark, they then get a fool of a spark to come and do an illegal act by signing for an install that he did not construct
 
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240V Bathroom extractor fan in zone 1?
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