240V Bathroom extractor fan in zone 1?

[Toad]

My electrician says he can't sign off the installation in my new loft conversion because the 240V extractor fan is in zone 1 (directly above the shower), and hence violates the Regs. He says the easiest option is to replace it with a 12V one, and locate the transformer remotely.

Disappointed, I phoned Vent Axia and Manrose to find out what 12V fans might be suitable, explaining my predicament. They both said the 240V fan is permitted in zone 1 under the 17th Edition Regs, provided the fan is IPX4 rated (which it is) and also that the circuit is RCD protected (which is it, since I have RCBOs on all circuits).

Please can someone confirm one way or the other. I don't want to embarass the electrician (NICEIC qualified), or myself, so I need to have reliable information on this, but obviously I don't want to change the fan if I don't have to!

 

[telectrix]

ask your electrician this question. " are you going to insist on a 12volt shower, as that's in the same location?"

 

[Toad]

What sometimes happens in situations not a lot different to the one described
A builder takes on a construction job
The householder or the builder says he will do the electrics

End of job, the council then want an Eic, off a part p registered spark, they then get a fool of a spark to come and do an illegal act by signing for an install that he did not construct

This has parallels to an apprentice working for a qualified professional (see Electromonkey's post). Surely nothing wrong with this kind of supervision, when the professional is in a position to correct things before authorising anything?

 

[electromonkey]

Where do you live Toad? We'll all hop in a van and take a look for you. Des and Tel can have a word with your spark for you too concerning his questionable working practices.

 

[Janjua]

I would not install a mains fan in zone-1 in my own bathroom, even if it was Ok by the manufacturer,
he is not the one who will be using the shower, its me i need to protect.
If something went wrong with the IP protection and a shock risk was present,
i would not rely solely on an RCD to protect me from 230V.

I would feel much better with a 12V fan, as this system is a fail Safe configuration.

 

[Geoffsd]

I would not install a mains fan in zone-1 in my own bathroom, even if it was Ok by the manufacturer,
he is not the one who will be using the shower, its me i need to protect.
If something went wrong with the IP protection and a shock risk was present,
i would not rely solely on an RCD to protect me from 230V.

I would feel much better with a 12V fan, as this system is a fail Safe configuration.

Have you got a 12V shower?

 

[brucelee]

zone 1 above bath upto 2.25m IPX4 minimum so if the fan is it complies

zone 0 IPX7 minimum

 

[SimpleSimon]

I would not install a mains fan in zone-1 in my own bathroom, even if it was Ok by the manufacturer,
he is not the one who will be using the shower, its me i need to protect.
If something went wrong with the IP protection and a shock risk was present,
i would not rely solely on an RCD to protect me from 230V.

I would feel much better with a 12V fan, as this system is a fail Safe configuration.

On a fan for the IP rating to fail it would be something obvious anyway so you'd be noticing and replacing with or without RCD. Lol
Its all in the regs so makes no worries IMO. Inline fans are better especially if there's no window inthe bathroom.

 

[topquark]

I`m a bit surprised the manufactorers dont mention zones. Seems like they dont want to commit themselves in case anything turns out to be wrong.

A lot of our accessories are imported. Zones (and their corresponding size rules) are unique to the UK so may not be quoted, the IP rating should always be given as that's an international standard.

 

[sparkdog]

The on site guide lists fixed 230V equipment that may be installed in zone 1.

 

[flukey]

it of a late reply, but electricians guide to the building regs page 62 states,
"a suitable 230v extractor fan may be installed in zones 1 and 2 as well as zone 3 and outside the zones. 30mA rcd protection is required in zone 1. if an extractor fan is installed in zone 1 or 2 it must be protected against the ingress of moisture to at least IPX4"

 

[jeremy]

Just a thought off tangent, What size cables would you need for a 10kw 12v shower?

 

[flukey]

Just a thought off tangent, What size cables would you need for a 10kw 12v shower?

might be worth trying to buy one first :vanish:

 

[vambo]

On a fan for the IP rating to fail it would be something obvious anyway so you'd be noticing and replacing with or without RCD. Lol
Its all in the regs so makes no worries IMO. Inline fans are better especially if there's no window inthe bathroom.

Most inline axial fans are terrible, any axial fan that has lengthy ducts of turbulent inducing flexible ducting has been poor when I've tested it with my equipment. Axial fans are poor in all modern builds that are air tight. They slow down under any kind of static resistance. Centrifugal fans are much better for this task esp with curved tips!
trust me axial inline fans (don't) suck.