A hypothetical question.

[Top Cat]

Just had a conversation with my wife about free electricity:-

If pylons are running over your land and you make a coil to get it down to 230V is it "drawing" off electricity from the grid or is it "free" electricity? Does it "hurt" the supply authority? or does it not matter?

 

[kingeri]

I'd say it would be drawing a minuscule amount.....but the fat cat (no offence) energy companies would not notice any difference, except that you'd stopped paying them anything!

 

[Adam W]

It's still illegal either way - at college we were shown a picture of a 'modern art piece' where someone had stuck a load of fluorescent tubes in the ground under the power lines and they lit up; it wouldn't have drawn much but they still had to get permission to do it.

Apparently certain, um, 'independent roofing and driveway contractors' sometimes use the method you stated to power their temporary accommodation.

 

[Top Cat]

It's still illegal either way - at college we were shown a picture of a 'modern art piece' where someone had stuck a load of fluorescent tubes in the ground under the power lines and they lit up; it wouldn't have drawn much but they still had to get permission to do it.

Apparently certain, um, 'independent roofing and driveway contractors' sometimes use the method you stated to power their temporary accommodation.

I agree with what you are saying but is it actually drawing current from the overhead lines that is even measurable?

 

[telectrix]

the overhead lines create a voltage gradient to earth. if you utilise that phenomenon, it still goes to earth, same as if you were not.

 

[trev]

An ex foreman of mine told me that a guy in Bristol (Where he was originally from) had done this exact thing and that the only thing that alerted the DNO to it was, as stated earlier that he had stopped paying them. Supposedly there was nothing illegal about this as he was utilising their naturally occuring electromagnetic fields which surrounded his home.
Whether it's true or not remains an issue

 

[Silly Sausage]

Just had a conversation with my wife about free electricity:-

If pylons are running over your land and you make a coil to get it down to 230V is it "drawing" off electricity from the grid or is it "free" electricity? Does it "hurt" the supply authority? or does it not matter?

I just usitilise the street lamp post they put up flush against my front garden wall.
Saves faffing around with 400kV lines and cables billowing around in the wind.

 

[Top Cat]

the overhead lines create a voltage gradient to earth. if you utilise that phenomenon, it still goes to earth, same as if you were not.

But are you "using", "drawing", extra current from the lines by "channeling" the voltage gradient to syphon off power? If you are drawing off say 30Amps of power to run something, 30 Amps of power would not flow to earth naturally?

 

[Silly Sausage]

But are you "using", "drawing", extra current from the lines by "channeling" the voltage gradient to syphon off power? If you are drawing off say 30Amps of power to run something, 30 Amps of power would not flow to earth naturally?

Interesting question.
You can obviously extract energy from the oscillating EM field.
Something to think about over the next few weeks.

I've got some 3 or 4 foot diameter water pipes running by the side of my house. Now if I could break into them and fit a turbine...

 

[telectrix]

if you have had a couple of pints or so and screw your eyes up at the thread title, it reads as hypo the cat.

 

[Silly Sausage]

if you have had a couple of pints or so and screw your eyes up at the thread title, it reads as hypo the cat.

The cat mint must be coming into season.

 

[Top Cat]

if you have had a couple of pints or so and screw your eyes up at the thread title, it reads as hypo the cat.

Only you could think that one up!Lol

 

[Top Cat]

The cat mint must be coming into season.

What are you trying to say big boy! Lol

 

[Adam W]

I agree with what you are saying but is it actually drawing current from the overhead lines that is even measurable?

I think the point is that it isn't measurable because it isn't measured, like bypassing a meter.
It's a bit like saying that using transformer based lights eg ELV downlighters doesn't cost anything, but it does.

At the end of the day, after it's got dark when you're using your 'free electricity' which you've siphoned off the grid, you could still get arrested, even if it's for 'theft by finding'; I suspect the DNO would take a dim view of it.

 

[MarkieSparkie]

If the electricity obtained was used without due authority you would be committing the offense of 'Abstraction of Electricity' under Section 13 of the Theft Act 1968 and be liable to a term of imprisonment not exceeding 5 years and/or a fine not exceeding £5000.

 

[Adam W]

If the electricity obtained was used without due authority you would be committing the offense of 'Abstraction of Electricity' under Section 13 of the Theft Act 1968 and be liable to a term of imprisonment not exceeding 5 years and/or a fine not exceeding £5000.

I think that answers the original question.

 

[Silly Sausage]

If the electricity obtained was used without due authority you would be committing the offense of 'Abstraction of Electricity' under Section 13 of the Theft Act 1968 and be liable to a term of imprisonment not exceeding 5 years and/or a fine not exceeding £5000.

I think that answers the original question.

This is a job for a lawyer!

MS's quote will apply to direct theft of power from a live conductor.
TC's original question is abstracting power from the EM field around said conductor!

 

[Adam W]

Where would you be stealing the electricity from if it weren't from a live conductor?
As I've said, putting it through an isolating transformer doesn't remove that liability.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Where would you be stealing the electricity from if it weren't from a live conductor?
As I've said, putting it through an isolating transformer doesn't remove that liability.

Imagine you're running a cable parallel to a supply cable without any physical contact, that will generate a current (excuse terminology) in your cable. They can't touch you for taking advantage of side effects of their supply? You're not interfering with the suppliers equipment, no leg to stand on. 4am, time for bed!

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Imagine you're running a cable parallel to a supply cable without any physical contact, that will generate a current (excuse terminology) in your cable. They can't touch you for taking advantage of side effects of their supply? You're not interfering with the suppliers equipment, no leg to stand on. 4am, time for bed!

I'm afraid they can, under the Theft Act 1968 the DNO fraud investigators just have to prove that 'abstraction of electricity' has occurred. Section 13 of the act Abstraction of Electricity:- Any person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted, any electricity... The method by which the electricity was obtained from the supply network is irrelevant.

 

[Knobhead]

From memory there was a case in the USA of illegal abstraction by using the electro / magnetic field of O/H line. The power company won, not a great surprise there then!

 

[sedgy34]

Either way it would be classed as fraudulent u might aswell bypass your meter this is hypothetical of course lol

 

[Top Cat]

We seem to have wondered off subject here. I don't care if it is illegal or not, as i am not going to do it!

My Question was are you using power from the lines that effect the power companies? for example:-

(and i know this is fantasy) At the power station they have a meter, now this is a new set of pylons and no one is using any electricity yet so the meter is reading 000000Kw. Now i put my coil under the pylons and manage to run my 10Kw shower. After an hour is that meter, reading 000010Kw?

 

[sedgy34]

HEY T C
I doubt it it's induced

 

[Top Cat]

Hi sedgy (Electrician Arms Member!) Probably but not convinced, where is Einstein when you want him!

 

[Knobhead]

View attachment 12194.............

 

[Top Cat]

Must say he's looking good for his age!Lol

 

[Paul.M]

"Now i put my coil under the pylons and manage to run my 10Kw shower. After an hour is that meter, reading 000010Kw?"

Yes it would. Because you have used 10Kw of current the generator would have to produce that in the first place and would have to generate it again.

In every o/h HV supply there is a loss when transporting current. In your case if no one is connected up yet and you siphon off 10Kw they would put it down to leakage until they find your coil under their lines.

(sorry if that didn't make sense, wifes nagging me to get off the forum and on with housework!)

 

[brman]

We seem to have wondered off subject here. I don't care if it is illegal or not, as i am not going to do it!

My Question was are you using power from the lines that effect the power companies? for example:-

(and i know this is fantasy) At the power station they have a meter, now this is a new set of pylons and no one is using any electricity yet so the meter is reading 000000Kw. Now i put my coil under the pylons and manage to run my 10Kw shower. After an hour is that meter, reading 000010Kw?

The answer is definitely YES.
All you are doing is making a transformer. No different to the one at the local substation except yours is air cored so not as efficient (and it wasn't installed by the DNO!)
the more load on the secondary (your pickup coil) the more load on the primary (the overhead lines), just like any transformer. There is no such thing as free energy, it has to come from somewhere.......

which I have just realised is what paul.m said about an hour ago :sad_smile:

 

[barnzi]

The only instance I've come across of this so far that was tested and proved to be legal was a chap using a resonant coil to pick up the powerful radio signal from a nearby broadcast transmitter. The only reason it was legal was that it was a public broadcast, therefore he was an intended recipient so it was all kosher under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1984. The BBC only discovered his scheme because people living in the shadow of his house were complaining about poor reception. The story goes that they offered to pay for his electricity if he dismantled the coil.

 

[Top Cat]

The only instance I've come across of this so far that was tested and proved to be legal was a chap using a resonant coil to pick up the powerful radio signal from a nearby broadcast transmitter. The only reason it was legal was that it was a public broadcast, therefore he was an intended recipient so it was all kosher under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1984. The BBC only discovered his scheme because people living in the shadow of his house were complaining about poor reception. The story goes that they offered to pay for his electricity if he dismantled the coil.

Clever!

 

[ackbarthestar]

The only instance I've come across of this so far that was tested and proved to be legal was a chap using a resonant coil to pick up the powerful radio signal from a nearby broadcast transmitter. The only reason it was legal was that it was a public broadcast, therefore he was an intended recipient so it was all kosher under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1984. The BBC only discovered his scheme because people living in the shadow of his house were complaining about poor reception. The story goes that they offered to pay for his electricity if he dismantled the coil.

You will still need a license to receive public broadcast signals. I think they call it a radio receiver (TV license covers all domestic receiving equipment)

 

[barnzi]

The Broadcasting Receiving Licence was abolished in 1969. These days you only need a licence for TV.

 

[Top Cat]

The Broadcasting Receiving Licence was abolished in 1969. These days you only need a licence for TV.

Corectomondo!

 

[ackbarthestar]

I must be getting old, thanks guys....

Q: Do you need a TV License to listen to a radio?

A: No you do not need a TV license to listen to a radio

Ask me any question and I'll give you an answer......

 

[Geordie Spark]

Either way it would be classed as fraudulent u might aswell bypass your meter this is hypothetical of course lol

What is the best way to hypothetically bypass the meter ?? :tounge_smile:

 

[MarkieSparkie]

What is the best way to hypothetically bypass the meter ?? :tounge_smile:

Do it as a thought exercise in your head. Certainly a safe and legal method.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Must say he's looking good for his age!Lol

That is a Tony self portrait.

 

[Geordie Spark]

"Now i put my coil under the pylons and manage to run my 10Kw shower. After an hour is that meter, reading 000010Kw?"

Yes it would. Because you have used 10Kw of current the generator would have to produce that in the first place and would have to generate it again.

In every o/h HV supply there is a loss when transporting current. In your case if no one is connected up yet and you siphon off 10Kw they would put it down to leakage until they find your coil under their lines.

(sorry if that didn't make sense, wifes nagging me to get off the forum and on with housework!)

Question: How many blokes are needed to do the housework?

Answer: None .... It's a woman's job !!

(tin hat on)

 

[Silly Sausage]

Question: How many blokes are needed to do the housework?

Answer: None .... It's a woman's job !!

(tin hat on)

Maybe in the Utopia that is Geordie land! or Yorkshire where men are men and women are grateful.

I went to Lundy for a week about 96 climbing, left her at home with the baby, got home, could barely get through the front door, took about 3 weeks to clean the mess up.