Thank God! Some reasoned response at last! Lol
Just being logical I suppose. Thinking more broadly about isolation (not cookers), the times I generally fit it are when it is specifically mentioned in the instructions, otherwise it is often a side affect of fusing down. I have been known to fit a switched FCU when a non-switched would do, just because it was what I had to hand.
That section is really referring to motor control and safety cicuits, completely non relevant to domestic cookers however if you really want to be pedantic, a 'means of operation' is not the same as 'isolation'.
Can't disagree with that, but then again, if the instructions call for a smiley face to be drawn on every one of their accessories then guess what... Lol. Kinda irrelevant to this debate but I see where you're going
Can't disagree with that, but then again, if the instructions call for a smiley face to be drawn on every one of their accessories then guess what... Lol. Kinda irrelevant to this debate but I see where you're going
Irrelevant? DP isolation isn't really in the same category as a smiley face....
Just look at the whole damned 3 amp fan fusing fiasco to see how important following manufacturers instructions are nowadays.
Because it would be unreasonable to expect danger to occur at the cooker any more so that at any other domestic accessory or appliance. Also, if the worst happened, the cooker will have an integral on/off switch which is readily accessible and durably placed so as to prevent danger.
Perhaps the most relevant reason however that emergency switching wouldn't apply to a domestic cooker is the fact that it is not classed as machinery! It is a COOKER.
Perhaps the most relevant reason however that emergency switching wouldn't apply to a domestic cooker is the fact that it is not classed as machinery! It is a COOKER.
I always fit one of these next to cookers in a domestic environment:
You can never be too careful.
Hmm, yes. I also understand that most manufacturers instructions are either non existent or meaningless! Hell the last cooker I connected I seem to remember it asking me to use 6mm HR flex?!?
I don't think I've ever seen any manufacturers instructions for cookers that deal with anything more than the size of cable required and the arrangement of the final termination into the cooker itself.
I always fit one of these next to cookers in a domestic environment:
View attachment 19586
You can never be too careful.
Hahahaha!
Pah, you amateur! I always fit the mandatory fireman's switch above all of mine!
Hahahaha!
Pah, you amateur! I always fit the mandatory fireman's switch above all of mine!
HAHAHAHAHAHA. That put a smile on my face!
K
Kate
Think you need to calm down a bit. I never said anything about your work.
Mike 66 said...go on commit yourself would you install a cooker without an isolator.
i was posting in response of that.
Who are you to jump on me saying I have no business doing EICRs. The whole point of an EICR is to give MY opinions on the condition of an installation. MY opinion.
Originally Posted by Kate
I would always install an isolation switch to a cooker. I will mark as an observation/issue if a cooker had no isolation too
I didn't say I would code it. I would mark it on observation sheet which is same as 'mentioning it'
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Because you would code a cooker with no local isolation when it warrants no code whatsoever. Ok, maybe my response was a bit harsh, I was just getting agitated by the whole 'ooooh, that's not very professional' attitude incinuated by others. My intention was never to 'jump' on you.
Still, if I found out an electrician had coded my work and it was unwarranted, they would at best be receiving a very stiff letter from me!
I just get the impression that there are a great many sparks out there that rely on dogma for an education rather than regulatory requirements bearing in mind that when carrying out EICRs we are testing and inspecting to BS 7671, not best practice. Anyone who doesn't know this indeed has NO business carrying out EICRs.
Edit: as I said anyone who would code it has no business carrying out EICRs then my reply clearly doesn't include you as you have now stated you would only mention it. Therefore no 'jumping' has occured!
Still, if I found out an electrician had coded my work and it was unwarranted, they would at best be receiving a very stiff letter from me!
I just get the impression that there are a great many sparks out there that rely on dogma for an education rather than regulatory requirements bearing in mind that when carrying out EICRs we are testing and inspecting to BS 7671, not best practice. Anyone who doesn't know this indeed has NO business carrying out EICRs.
Edit: as I said anyone who would code it has no business carrying out EICRs then my reply clearly doesn't include you as you have now stated you would only mention it. Therefore no 'jumping' has occured!
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4
44ALLAN
Just curious here as I ain't domestic spark.................and not taking sides either
How would you guys, who are discussing the matter with Mr.Skelton, isolate a lighting circuit?
Cooker..........230v
Lights...........230v.
both will kill you if you let it.
Do you put a local isolator on each lighting circuit or each light?
How would you guys, who are discussing the matter with Mr.Skelton, isolate a lighting circuit?
Cooker..........230v
Lights...........230v.
both will kill you if you let it.
Do you put a local isolator on each lighting circuit or each light?
K
Kate
I wouldn't code it. I would just mention it on the observation sheet. A cover my a$$ if there was ever a cooker fire after my EICR.
In my experience of the general public sometimes only one person in a household actually knows where the DB is! If the worst happened I like an iso switch near cooker area.
Landlords insurance more often than not requires local iso near cooker. So does council. 90% of my EICRs are for one of these two so I mention it on obs sheet. Also I dont deal direct with owners, usually estate agent etc.
In my experience of the general public sometimes only one person in a household actually knows where the DB is! If the worst happened I like an iso switch near cooker area.
Landlords insurance more often than not requires local iso near cooker. So does council. 90% of my EICRs are for one of these two so I mention it on obs sheet. Also I dont deal direct with owners, usually estate agent etc.
K
Kate
Nope lol. Mcb I know lights and cooker are same volts as 44allen said. But to me a cooker is more risky. I know thats a bit stupid...maybe its because I can't cook and could easily start a fire hahahaha. And kids have a lovely habit of twisting knobs. We have to iso our cooker at wall when they come over!
I know lights and cooker are same volts as 44allen said. But to me a cooker is more risky. I know thats a bit stupid...maybe its because I can't cook and could easily start a fire hahahaha. And kids have a lovely habit of twisting knobs. We have to iso our cooker at wall when they come over!
4
44ALLAN
I think you'll find he was just saying there was no need to according to the regs and it progressed from there lol
M
Marvo
The fire angle might benefit from a wall isolator, if there was an oil fire I'm sure the homeowner would appreciate a means of complete isolation from a single point. Between that and the benefit of 2-pole isolation to isolate a shared RCD tripping fault plus possibly manufacturers instructions requiring one (even future requirement if stove is replaced) I'd say there was sufficient grounds to install one as a matter of course even if the regs don't specifically state it. On the flip side I'd also say you couldn't code an installation that didn't have one.
Regulatory speaking, the same applies to showers as it does to cookers. No local isolation is 'needed'. Bathroom fans, haha, well, that's a whole other topic! My feelings surrounding this subject are well known! Lol. If you care to look and learn a little then by all means have a read of this:
http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...3-pole-isolation-source-much-controversy.html
Nope lol. Mcb
Kate - that is one damn good reason to have a local isolator out of reach - young inquisitive kids.
You know what. I have spent the last 15mins reading & double reading the BGB regarding isolation & you know what you may be right.
I hadve an old 2005 domestic electrical Installation Guide & it says it needs it quite clearly in that under reg 460-01-01. That section has now changed due the 17th edition. Just goes to show that when they rewrite these regs it is'n always for the better LOL.
But congratulations it looks like you are going to keep your £1000.
I will still continue to install them though.
E
Engineer54
At last, someone applying logic and a bit of commonsense, instead of trying to use the Reg's as an argument for or against the provision of a means of local isolation.
Leaving out the provision of a means of local isolation to a cooker, is about as senseless as mounting a CCU in the back of a kitchen cabinet that you can't easily get access too!!
Regs or not, if someone installed a cooker circuit for me and didn't give me an cooker isolator on the end of it I'd want to know why. Same for a shower. Seems a bit amateur to go straight from the single pole MCB to the device being powered. Could also be dangerous if the cooker needs isolating due to emergency/fire/overheating/fault/whatever and the homeowner has to go to the cupboard under the stairs, empty all the crap out to find the consumer unit and then flick every switch off till they get the right one. Which then also plunges the house into darkness and they trip over something. Maybe a bit exagerrated but you get the point. Daz
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