Adding a Fuse Spur on to a Consumer Unit Circuit

[RDB85]

I’ve had a disagreement with one of the Engineers in work. So we are doing an install. Installing an Intruder Alarm. Rather than go with my suggestion of coming off a Socket and adding in the Fuse Spur as he’s been doing it 15 years it’s now going next to the Consumer Unit. Which at a guess is 20 years old. He said it’s fine to just add in a circuit to an existing circuit.

Myself personally I’m dead against it. He’s not a qualified electrician. Thoughts?

 

[DPG]

Exactly. That’s my point. I’ve my level 2 and 3 2365. But that doesn’t mean I’m qualified. But our place don’t care.

Who's name is on the cert.

 

[RDB85]

Who's name is on the cert.

What certification? This is the whole argument and why I’ve refused to even do it.

 

[DPG]

What certification? This is the whole argument and why I’ve refused to even do it.

I thought you said you were both doing it?

 

[RDB85]

I thought you said you were both doing it?

We’re both doing the install. I’m not added the circuit to the consumer unit. As I’m not qualified and neither is the other chap.

 

[DPG]

We’re both doing the install. I’m not added the circuit to the consumer unit. As I’m not qualified and neither is the other chap.

I'm with you. Well luckily whoever tests and certifies it will be responsible.

 

[Markyd]

And what company is this? Additions to a circuit, No testing, No cert...NO CLUE

 

[ipf]

And what company is this? Additions to a circuit, No testing, No cert...NO CLUE

Alarm 'engineers', at a rough guess?
Very ROUGH

 

[littlespark]

Any electrical work must be tested and certified.
Whether an alteration to an existing circuit (spurring off ring) or installation of a new circuit.

Do you do any paperwork to record the IR and earth loop values?


Obviously spurring from ring is easier to do. Isolate power first. All good….
But working in a board… you have to isolate the entire board… and you can’t do that without a service isolator before the board. The tails in the top of the mainswitch would still be live.

How does your company insurance deal with this?


We are not having a go at you, you’ve still got a trainee badge, and it’s your job to ask questions….

What we are concerned with is why, if we do the same job, spur off a socket to a fused outlet… we would have a 5 page document to fill out whereas alarm engineers, CCTV, gas installers….. can all seem to rock up and get on with it.

 

[oscar21]

Off topic but if you take a 2.5 spur from a 32A ring final MCB to a twin socket that could have two 3kw heaters plugged into it you will get 5 stars from the NICEIC for keeping to the regulations yet if you wire a twin socket from a 32A MCB that has nothing else in it you are the most dangerous spark out there yet it has exactly the same characteristics.

 

[davesparks]

Off topic but if you take a 2.5 spur from a 32A ring final MCB to a twin socket that could have two 3kw heaters plugged into it you will get 5 stars from the NICEIC for keeping to the regulations

If you know that the user intends to plug 2x 3kW heaters in to the socket then you design a better solution.

yet if you wire a twin socket from a 32A MCB that has nothing else in it you are the most dangerous spark out there yet it has exactly the same characteristics.

Why would that make someone a dangerous electrician? There's nothing to say a twin socket can't be fed from a 32A MCB.

 

[mainline]

Off topic but if you take a 2.5 spur from a 32A ring final MCB to a twin socket that could have two 3kw heaters plugged into it you will get 5 stars from the NICEIC for keeping to the regulations yet if you wire a twin socket from a 32A MCB that has nothing else in it you are the most dangerous spark out there yet it has exactly the same characteristics.

As above but also why would adding to the 32 mcb that already has an existing circuit or not make a difference, I suppose the 2.5 supplying the double socket is less likely to overload as the extra load on the 32 mcb from the other load is added to it is the only thing I can think of causing it to trip sooner.

 

[MJPD29]

Any electrical work must be tested and certified.
Whether an alteration to an existing circuit (spurring off ring) or installation of a new circuit.

Do you do any paperwork to record the IR and earth loop values?


Obviously spurring from ring is easier to do. Isolate power first. All good….
But working in a board… you have to isolate the entire board… and you can’t do that without a service isolator before the board. The tails in the top of the mainswitch would still be live.

How does your company insurance deal with this?


We are not having a go at you, you’ve still got a trainee badge, and it’s your job to ask questions….

What we are concerned with is why, if we do the same job, spur off a socket to a fused outlet… we would have a 5 page document to fill out whereas alarm engineers, CCTV, gas installers….. can all seem to rock up and get on with it.

Alarm engineers is a loose term. Anyone can program an alarm. I love the arrogance they have about them sometimes

 

[nicebutdim]

Alarm engineers is a loose term. Anyone can program an alarm. I love the arrogance they have about them sometimes

I love how they can string cables anywhere they please - usually achieving the shortest distance between
A & B.

 

[James]

Some (not all) consider themselves engineers because someone has told them what the engineers password is for the alarm.
therefore they can do more than a user and consider themselves an engineer by title.

however, i have met some that are true engineers and understand how the sensors work, what the various signals and resistances passed down the cables are etc.

 

[nicebutdim]

Some (not all) consider themselves engineers because someone has told them what the engineers password is for the alarm.
therefore they can do more than a user and consider themselves an engineer by title.

however, i have met some that are true engineers and understand how the sensors work, what the various signals and resistances passed down the cables are etc.

I can think of one guy who works for a well known alarm company, whose knowledge of electrical systems is incredible (not simply alarms). Unfortunately he is a one off and his colleagues conform to my earlier, lazy stereotype.