Britain Leave the European Union (Please be polite with other people's views)

So Risteard, you do believe we can negotiate a better deal than Norway?
You do believe we will be spending £350 million per week on the NHS?
You don’t believe that companies have already moved their European head offices to other EU member states?
 
spinlondon said:
So Risteard, you do believe we can negotiate a better deal than Norway?
You do believe we will be spending £350 million per week on the NHS?
You don’t believe that companies have already moved their European head offices to other EU member states?
Click to expand...
I disagree with your claim that the "remain" camp weren't full of lies. It's just that no-one has investigated this because they lost the referendum as they were always going to. I maintained for decades that if there was ever a referendum to leave the EU then the EU would be thrown in the bin. I was proved correct.
 
Risteard said:
I disagree with your claim that the "remain" camp weren't full of lies. It's just that no-one has investigated this because they lost the referendum as they were always going to. I maintained for decades that if there was ever a referendum to leave the EU then the EU would be thrown in the bin. I was proved correct.
Click to expand...
Are you someone who ignores facts?
Companies have already moved their European head offices to other EU member states.
Economic turmoil and uncertainty, is already here.
The Brexiteers are now saying that yes there will be economic turmoil and uncertainty
They use the analogy of moving home.
Thing is, we’re not moving home, we’re leaving our home and hoping to find another.
To date, car manufacturer’s are shutting down production or closing plants, the UK steel industry is about to collapse, the construction industry is in a slow down and anyone who exports to the EU is in a panic.
 
Risteard said:
Do you admit that the "Remain" campaign was full of lies?
Click to expand...
No.
How could something that never was be full of lies?
There was no ‘remain campaign’, instead there were a hodgepodge of politicians, ex-politicians and celebrity types bleating on about what might happen.

Unlike the Brexit campaign which made various claims and promises which have since been proved to be bogus.
 
spinlondon said:
No.
How could something that never was be full of lies?
There was no ‘remain campaign’, instead there were a hodgepodge of politicians, ex-politicians and celebrity types bleating on about what might happen.

Unlike the Brexit campaign which made various claims and promises which have since been proved to be bogus.
Click to expand...
If you honestly think that then there's no helping you.
 
Risteard said:
If you honestly think that then there's no helping you.
Click to expand...
During the campaign, Farage stated categorically that a ‘no deal’ Brexit was not an option.
That the UK is the 5th largest economy and we will be able to broker a deal much better than the Norway deal.

Now Farage wants a ‘no deal’ Brexit.
 
spinlondon said:
During the campaign, Farage stated categorically that a ‘no deal’ Brexit was not an option.
That the UK is the 5th largest economy and we will be able to broker a deal much better than the Norway deal.

Now Farage wants a ‘no deal’ Brexit.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone, including Farage wants 'no deal'.

What they're saying is that we actually need to negotiate hard with the EU, rather than just bending over for them. If that means we trade on WTO rules for a few months then so be it. It's clowns that want 'no deal taken off the table' who have completely undermined our negotiating position. It's almost like going to a customer to quote and saying "I need this job so badly and I won't walk away whatever you ask of me". You'd have to be short of a few brain cells to do it.

Yes, the Leave campaign was full of lies, but so was remain. I'm sure most people saw through the rubbish spouted on both sides though. Remain claimed that in the event of a Leave vote:

  • There would be an immediate emergency budget
  • The economy would take an immediate hit and we'd go into recession
  • British immigration officials would be kicked out of Calais
  • The stock market would collapse
  • Job losses on a massive scale
All complete rubbish
 
Your all might be right, and you all might be wrong.

Truth is nobody knows what might happen if we leave; all we (I mean the large companies & conglomerates) know for certain, is what happens now, whilst we are in the EU. If we do leave only time will tell, if it was a good thing or not such a good thing. Thats why business are nervous; they don't like change.

As somebody mentioned before, the EU will not negotiate a 'better' deal, 'cos others might follow suit, its always gonna be on the shitty end of the stick. Thats something 'we' have to accept.
 
The only thing that bothers me if things get sticky for a while is the snowflake youth aspect off this country (not all of them obviously but a vast majority) at the moment they don’t have a lot of resilience or get up and go....
 
Could you imagine ‘conscription!’ Imagine the luggage alone!
Oh my!
Baddegg said:
The only thing that bothers me if things get sticky for a while is the snowflake youth aspect off this country (not all of them obviously but a vast majority) at the moment they don’t have a lot of resilience or get up and go....
Click to expand...
 
mattg4321 said:
I don't think anyone, including Farage wants 'no deal'.

What they're saying is that we actually need to negotiate hard with the EU, rather than just bending over for them. If that means we trade on WTO rules for a few months then so be it. It's clowns that want 'no deal taken off the table' who have completely undermined our negotiating position. It's almost like going to a customer to quote and saying "I need this job so badly and I won't walk away whatever you ask of me". You'd have to be short of a few brain cells to do it.

Yes, the Leave campaign was full of lies, but so was remain. I'm sure most people saw through the rubbish spouted on both sides though. Remain claimed that in the event of a Leave vote:

  • There would be an immediate emergency budget
  • The economy would take an immediate hit and we'd go into recession
  • British immigration officials would be kicked out of Calais
  • The stock market would collapse
  • Job losses on a massive scale
All complete rubbish
Click to expand...
Unfortunately it’s not all rubbish though.
Economy has already taken a hit, and we haven’t left yet.
Job losses are happening now, again we haven’t left yet.

So out of the 5 things you’ve cited, 2 have already started.
The Calais thing will happen unless we have a deal.
As for the other 2, we’ll have to wait and see.
 
spinlondon said:
Unfortunately it’s not all rubbish though.
Economy has already taken a hit, and we haven’t left yet.
Job losses are happening now, again we haven’t left yet.

So out of the 5 things you’ve cited, 2 have already started.
The Calais thing will happen unless we have a deal.
As for the other 2, we’ll have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

You seem to be continuing the scaremongering, the border deal with France is external to the EU and the whole thing came about from a Mayor spouting crap in Calais to which the government was forced to make a statement that it would not happen.

Job losses.... place cite which ones you refer to, the world's economy is slowing down this leads to job losses regardless, even if you count all the job losses in recent yrs the employment levels are still record highs, every time we see a company on the brink the remainers blame brexit and they have been shown to be wrong on several occasions yet we still see it happening.

I remind you that the economy is growing faster now than the EU and I could explain in detail why if you request so, the UK has seen record foreign investment over the last few yrs where as the EU has declined, I have followed EU politics for 20yrs and trust me, we will be a lot better off out of it than in, of course when a country leaves a massive trade body there will be casualties but the long term benefits way out strip the short term hit.

I'm not sure if you recall but all the same bodies, predicting doomsday if we leave were the same ones that did the same if we did not join the Euro, oh and were they proved wrong, look at the state of the countries now under the Euro and the massive internal debts they are on coupled with the high unemployment rates...

I am all for listening to other opinions so please cite some examples to back your position up and I'll will reflect on them and also fill you in why remaining in the EU will drag us down with it.
 
spinlondon said:
Unfortunately it’s not all rubbish though.
Economy has already taken a hit, and we haven’t left yet.
Job losses are happening now, again we haven’t left yet.

So out of the 5 things you’ve cited, 2 have already started.
The Calais thing will happen unless we have a deal.
As for the other 2, we’ll have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

But you have to accept we had a democratic vote (I voted to remain) and the small majority result was to leave. Blame those for your woes that could not be arsed to vote (28%) and the idiots (25k+) who ruined their ballot papers. Perhaps things might be different.

Thats democracy in action. If you don't uphold that, we spiral into other things. We might have ball'eds up, but thats life. The whole world is not in the EU.
 
I’m not sure what it is exactly Brexiteers hope to achieve?
There’s some talk about us regaining our sovereignty.
Something about stopping immigration.
Something else about having trade deals outside of the EU.

Regaining our sovereignty sounds all well and good, but really what does it mean?
At present, the EU (which we do have a say in) introduces laws and regulations, which our government then chooses whether to adopt.
Some we adopt, some we don’t.

As for immigration, the Tories won’t stop it, they need the immigrants to keep wages low.
Labour won’t stop it on moral grounds.

As for trade deals, it seems so far the only country that wants to trade with us, is the USA. All we have to do is lower our food health and hygiene standards (so we won’t be able to trade with the EU) and stop the cap we have on the cost of pharmaceuticals (so much for sovereignty).
 
spinlondon said:
Unfortunately it’s not all rubbish though.
Economy has already taken a hit, and we haven’t left yet.
Job losses are happening now, again we haven’t left yet.

So out of the 5 things you’ve cited, 2 have already started.
The Calais thing will happen unless we have a deal.
As for the other 2, we’ll have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

You might want to do some more fact checking, the economy is in a better place than most EU countries despite all the buggering about from the politicians determined to stop Brexit and scare people in to backing down, here is a link explaining the situation in regards to employment since the referendum.
More people are in work since the Brexit vote - https://fullfact.org/economy/more-people-work-brexit-vote/
 
Since the Brexit referendum, there have been over 245,000 job losses from all areas of work.
Retail, banking, service, construction, manufacturing, etc.
I know of Carillion and the 20% increase in liquidation of construction firms, that sparked.
I know of car manufacturer’s that have closed plants, reduced production at plants and have decided to not build plants in the UK since the referendum.
The latest newsworthy job losses are from Jaimie’s Kitchens and British Steel.
Personally, I have seen a marked decrease in the number of job offers for Electricians.
 
how do you account for the fact that employment levels are at the highest since records began then?
 
stuarth said:
You might want to do some more fact checking, the economy is in a better place than most EU countries despite all the buggering about from the politicians determined to stop Brexit and scare people in to backing down, here is a link explaining the situation in regards to employment since the referendum.
More people are in work since the Brexit vote - https://fullfact.org/economy/more-people-work-brexit-vote/
Click to expand...
Brexit Job Loss Index: 224,585 Jobs Lost As Of 23 April 2019 - https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/brexit-index/
 
spinlondon said:
I’m not sure what it is exactly Brexiteers hope to achieve?
There’s some talk about us regaining our sovereignty.
Something about stopping immigration.
Something else about having trade deals outside of the EU.

Regaining our sovereignty sounds all well and good, but really what does it mean?
At present, the EU (which we do have a say in) introduces laws and regulations, which our government then chooses whether to adopt.
Some we adopt, some we don’t.

As for immigration, the Tories won’t stop it, they need the immigrants to keep wages low.
Labour won’t stop it on moral grounds.

As for trade deals, it seems so far the only country that wants to trade with us, is the USA. All we have to do is lower our food health and hygiene standards (so we won’t be able to trade with the EU) and stop the cap we have on the cost of pharmaceuticals (so much for sovereignty).
Click to expand...

Sovereignty will mean that WE get to instruct OUR politicians on the direction the country goes in, like voting for the Green party if you want to have better controls on pollution in this country, at the moment 27 commissioners decide what policy will go before the EU parliament the same commissioners that we have absolutely no way to influence as they are unelected and there for totally unaccountable to any voter in this country. To take back control over our politicians will mean WE take back sovereignty and have a chance to change the way things are done in our country.

The government only have choices on some of the EU laws not all, and if they dont follow EU laws then they get taken to the EU court just like Poland and Austria are at the moment.

I think you have the Tories & Labour the wrong way round, Labour has stopped representing the hard working man many years ago, just look at their current leader never ever done a days work in his life, a total career politician and a pretty bad one at that, Labour take power and spend all the money put up taxes sell all the gold reserves and bankrupt the country, the Tories get in to power put all the ---- right the Labour gov buggered up and get painted as the bad guys, happens every bloody time I personally would love a change in the way politics works in this country, we can not keep going round on the Labour & Torie merry go round of overspending and cuts to services to pay for it.
I think you will find many countries want to do trade deals with us, not just the yanks.
 
stuarth said:
Sovereignty will mean that WE get to instruct OUR politicians on the direction the country goes in, like voting for the Green party if you want to have better controls on pollution in this country, at the moment 27 commissioners decide what policy will go before the EU parliament the same commissioners that we have absolutely no way to influence as they are unelected and there for totally unaccountable to any voter in this country. To take back control over our politicians will mean WE take back sovereignty and have a chance to change the way things are done in our country.

The government only have choices on some of the EU laws not all, and if they dont follow EU laws then they get taken to the EU court just like Poland and Austria are at the moment.

I think you have the Tories & Labour the wrong way round, Labour has stopped representing the hard working man many years ago, just look at their current leader never ever done a days work in his life, a total career politician and a pretty bad one at that, Labour take power and spend all the money put up taxes sell all the gold reserves and bankrupt the country, the Tories get in to power put all the **** right the Labour gov buggered up and get painted as the bad guys, happens every bloody time I personally would love a change in the way politics works in this country, we can not keep going round on the Labour & Torie merry go round of overspending and cuts to services to pay for it.
I think you will find many countries want to do trade deals with us, not just the yanks.
Click to expand...
Not sure whether this is sarcasm or not?
For over 40 years our elected politicians have been signing away our sovereignty.
It was Maggie Thatcher who signed the free movement treaty in 1984. In the same year she privatised a lot of our national industries allowing foreign investors and companies to buy in and take over.
Seems that every Government since has been signing more and more of our sovereignty away.

You say the government only has choices on some of the laws.
We’ll get taken to court if we don’t enact some of them.
We’ve been paying a fine every year to the court of human rights for decades regarding the illegal reading and censoring of prisoner’s mail.
I don’t see that being taken to court for not enacting an EU law is a particular problem.
We’ve not been forced to join the Euro, we’ve not been forced to change from pints to litres, we’ve not been forced to adopt the working time directive, just what are these laws that we’ll be taken to court for?

I don’t think I have the Tories and Labour confused at all.
Though I do accept that there seems to be little to choose between them.
Whilst Labour do appear to no longer represent the hard working man, the Tories never have and never will.

As for Corbyn being a career politician, there’s not much I can do about that. Seems 99% of politicians are career politicians now.
I can’t actually think of any Labour politician that I would want as Prime Minister. Perhaps Dennis Skinner, Joe Ashton or Jess Phillips.

As for Labour spending all the money, that’s what money is for.
To my mind, it’s much better to spend the money on necessary things rather than give it away to people who have more than enough already.
 
mattg4321 said:
Give me strength!

No one knows how we will do outside the EU. What we do know is that employment figures are currently very very strong

UK employment at highest since 1971 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47622415

Record employment. Lowest unemployment rate since 1971 (3.9%). EU average is 6.5%. Wages rising faster than inflation.

Are you living in some kind of parallel universe @spinlondon
Click to expand...
So our record employment is based on us having low unemployment figures.
Those low figures have nothing to do with 16 to 18 year olds now being forced to remain in education?
Nothing to do with people being on universal credit rather than Job Seekers allowance?
Nothing to do with people not being able to claim Job Seekers allowance for the first week, or having their Job Seekers allowance stopped due to sanctions?
 
telectrix said:
1 particular entry on that is poundland. can you really blame brexit, or is it just that customers have realised what crap they sell? and that applies to most of the ******** in that document. next thing is they'll be blaming brexit for climate change.
Click to expand...
Actually, the Brexit fiasco has caused the value of Sterling to drop, so it was harder for poundland to buy goods to sell for a pound.
 
spinlondon said:
I’m not sure what it is exactly Brexiteers hope to achieve?
There’s some talk about us regaining our sovereignty.
Something about stopping immigration.
Something else about having trade deals outside of the EU.

Regaining our sovereignty sounds all well and good, but really what does it mean?
At present, the EU (which we do have a say in) introduces laws and regulations, which our government then chooses whether to adopt.
Some we adopt, some we don’t.

As for immigration, the Tories won’t stop it, they need the immigrants to keep wages low.
Labour won’t stop it on moral grounds.

As for trade deals, it seems so far the only country that wants to trade with us, is the USA. All we have to do is lower our food health and hygiene standards (so we won’t be able to trade with the EU) and stop the cap we have on the cost of pharmaceuticals (so much for sovereignty).
Click to expand...

And what food hygiene is this, given that we accept pre packed salads from.the EU that is rinsed in the same stuff you are playing the scaremongering games on and the fact the UK has one of the highest supermarket contaminated chicken in the western world that means it accounts for a massive burden on our NHS ... I ask what is your issue

Ps ... the EU did not block chlorinated meat because of health concerns and to note it was EU sources that made this baseless claim during brexit.
 
As far as I’m aware, chlorinated meat has been banned since 1997.
Yes, EU farmers wash their produce in chlorine.
Don’t know about the EU sources making any baseless claim during Brexit?
My information is that the UK refused the trade deal with the USA because meat producers in the USA routinely wash carcasses in chlorine.
It’s not scaremongering.
If we lower our standards to allow chlorinated meat, the EU will refuse to allow us to export to them, just as they refuse to allow the USA.
Or do you think that we’ll be able to work out a special deal with the EU?

Personally I am against the practice, especially when it is used to refresh already spoiling meat.
 
we’ve not been forced to change from pints to litres,

only on beer. what about petrol/milk/everything else liquid. and not to mention the dreaded prosecutions by trading standards for grocers selling a pound of carrots.
 
spinlondon said:
....I can’t actually think of any Labour politician that I would want as Prime Minister. Perhaps Dennis Skinner, Joe Ashton or Jess Phillips...
Click to expand...
Can I suggest that you move to Venezuela for a few months before you wish for such things... you might then realise that your ideology doesn't work !!
 
telectrix said:
we’ve not been forced to change from pints to litres,

only on beer. what about petrol/milk/everything else liquid. and not to mention the dreaded prosecutions by trading standards for grocers selling a pound of carrots.
Click to expand...
You obviously don’t drink tea Tel.
Milk is sold in pints.
Petrol and diesel is sold in litres, so it doesn’t look so expensive.
 
and it's only draught beer that's sold in pints. cans and bottles are in mL. spirits were 1/6 gill/measure. not anymore. and have you seen all the signs that have sprung up on motorways? each exactly 0.5kM spacing.

some supermarkets still sell milk in pints, but most are in litres.
 

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