class 1 lighting

[Araman]

I have an NICEIC inspection in a few weeks for which I am replacing a cu.

The lighting circuits have no cpc and on doing the risk assessment I have found five class 1 lamps with metal shades. The rest of the lamps are class 2.

Is it obligatory to replace these units for the inspection or is it sufficient to give warning to the customer, in writing, that they present a danger? (The customer fitted them himself)

Any advice gratefully received.

 

[Adam W]

If they are class 1 they require an earth. I would say that needs sorting out before you can change the cu.

 

[malcolmsanford]

I would be looking around for a little less contentious assessment project.

Realistically you can argue your leaving the installation in a safer condition by fitting the circuit with RCD protection. As you are doing a risk assessment you can argue that was your assessment of the installation and leave the class 1 fittings as the client refused to change it, all this backed up with a covering letter attached to the EIC outlining this.

As it is an assessment you might find the assessor not liking this and insisted that you should have changed them to class II and if the client refused then not change the CU.

My advice change the fittings, if the client will not let you, don't change the CU and do a friends, relative, your house FOC, for labour that is a little less contentious.

 

[bozobro0]

I would see if the customer would consider a lighting rewire,if not then i would not use that job as an assessment.Unearthed metal light fittings,Code 1 in my eyes,requires urgent attention.
What would happen if you changed the CU,left lighting circuits as they are,and Mr or Mrs customer got a belt of one of the fittings.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Not sure I would code it a 1 on a PIR, certainly a 2. If a class I fitting is in the hall, lounge, kitchen bedroom etc and it was going to be supplied by the RCD then I think I would under a risk assessment change the CU.

If they were in a room containing extraneous conductive parts then yes I would either not fit the CU, or fit the CU and isolate the circuit.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Have a read of this, all will be revealed: http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/industry/best_practice/BPG1v2_web.pdf

 

[malcolmsanford]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I was looking for that cheers mate, yes this explains it much better than I

 

[IQ Electrical]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I was looking for that cheers mate, yes this explains it much better than I

These guides are brilliant, not just for the good explanation but also to give you something in black & white to point to if ever your decisions are questioned.

The new guide to the Electrical Installation Condition Report is only a few days away and is very much worth printing out and keeping handy!

 

[malcolmsanford]

As a proper sparks mate I don't need these guides it's all up in the grey matter:thinking::teeth_smile:................ and if you believe that you believe anything.

I'll have to downloads these as they are useful tools cheers my man, oh by the way haven't you got work to do??

 

[IQ Electrical]

As a proper sparks mate I don't need these guides it's all up in the grey matter:thinking::teeth_smile:................ and if you believe that you believe anything.

I'll have to downloads these as they are useful tools cheers my man, oh by the way haven't you got work to do??

Ha, my good lady has hijacked Malcolm's account!

 

[malcolmsanford]

She sends her love and says don't hurry home everything is in hand

 

[Araman]

I have an NICEIC inspection in a few weeks for which I am replacing a cu.

The lighting circuits have no cpc and on doing the risk assessment I have found five class 1 lamps with metal shades. The rest of the lamps are class 2.

Is it obligatory to replace these units for the inspection or is it sufficient to give warning to the customer, in writing, that they present a danger? (The customer fitted them himself)

Any advice gratefully received.

Many thanks to all who replied to this. I had already read the Best Practice Guide which is a bit ambiguous on this subject, so in the end I went direct to the nominated inspector. He came down in favour of replacing the class I lamps with class II as the customer will not accept the disruption of fitting cpc's to the lighting system

 

[Octopus]

I have an NICEIC inspection in a few weeks for which I am replacing a cu.

The lighting circuits have no cpc and on doing the risk assessment I have found five class 1 lamps with metal shades. The rest of the lamps are class 2.

Is it obligatory to replace these units for the inspection or is it sufficient to give warning to the customer, in writing, that they present a danger? (The customer fitted them himself)

Any advice gratefully received.

Did you ask the NICEIC for their technical guidance?

I faced this issue a few weeks back and consulted Elecsa (who said its a very regular question). My conversation with the advisor was concerning the interpretation of the best practice guide......

In the end I changed the CU, spoke to the client about the fittings, made them aware of the danger and covered it on the EIC. As the house didn't have any main bonding or equipotential bonding before I started, the conclusion was that the site was safer than before.

Not ideal, but a common sense approach. Can't remember where I read this, but I'm sure that there's no regulation that states that a lighting circuit without a CPC must be rewired.

Not convinced I'd be putting this job forward for my assessment but if the opportunity arises during my assessment I will raise the senario with my assessor.

 

[Dunc]

Did you ask the NICEIC for their technical guidance?

I faced this issue a few weeks back and consulted Elecsa (who said its a very regular question). My conversation with the advisor was concerning the interpretation of the best practice guide......

In the end I changed the CU, spoke to the client about the fittings, made them aware of the danger and covered it on the EIC. As the house didn't have any main bonding or equipotential bonding before I started, the conclusion was that the site was safer than before.

Not ideal, but a common sense approach. Can't remember where I read this, but I'm sure that there's no regulation that states that a lighting circuit without a CPC must be rewired.

Not convinced I'd be putting this job forward for my assessment but if the opportunity arises during my assessment I will raise the senario with my assessor.

I'm hoping i'm reading in to your post wrongly but am i to understand that you've changed a consumer unit and not installed bonding? That's just how it sounds and can't figure out if there was no CPC and class 1 fittings and you left it this way or not?

IMO, if there is class 1 fittings and no CPC then class 2 fittings can be used to replace the existing fittings to comply with the regs. A warning notice must then be attached to the consumer unit stating that no CPC is present on circuits x,y and z and that class 1 fittings must not be used. A 30mA RCD is also recommended for additional protection but that will be fitted regardless as per the 17th requirements for cables buried in walls. Alternatively the whole lighting circuit should be stripped out and rewired, it would be 40 odd years old after all!

 

[malcolmsanford]

Murdoch Reg 412.2.3.2 is the nearest indication concerning CPC in circuits.