Do I need a torque screwdriver set?

[Steady Steve]

I've just started my training and am interested in what tools are essential when first starting out. Is the torque screwdriver regarded as one of the useful tools in the toolbag? Thanks

 

[MJPD29]

No probably not.I had one for 3 years and used it twice, then sold it. For some specialist applications then torque tools are required but for the majority of the work I do I'm comfortable I've tightened stuff correctly with a normal screwdriver

 

[nicebutdim]

If you're starting to gather up tools, I wouldn't be too concerned about a torque screwdriver just yet.

Pliers, shears, side cutters, screwdrivers would be the basics to start with, then increase that range of hand tools depending on what sort of work you find yourself doing. Maybe add a pair of 8" grips to the list of essential tools - I hate them, but have to conceed they cover a lot of uses.

 

[Steady Steve]

---

---

No probably not.I had one for 3 years and used it twice, then sold it. For some specialist applications then torque tools are required but for the majority of the work I do I'm comfortable I've tightened stuff correctly with a normal screwdriver

That's good to know. There seem to be so many tools available - of varying specialisation - that I only want to look at those that are necessary. A cable stripper is something that I did recently purchase.

 

[Steady Steve]

If you're starting to gather up tools, I wouldn't be too concerned about a torque screwdriver just yet.

Pliers, shears, side cutters, screwdrivers would be the basics to start with, then increase that range of hand tools depending on what sort of work you find yourself doing. Maybe add a pair of 8" grips to the list of essential tools - I hate them, but have to conceed they cover a lot of uses.

Thanks, now that's a very reasonable list!

 

[littlespark]

The only thing where a torque driver would need to be used is a consumer unit, where there is a Nm value stated for tightening terminals.
If your just starting out, you won’t be doing many of them.

It is argued that too tight can be as bad as too loose, but as you progress, you’ll get a sixth sense with a manual driver whether it’s too tight or loose….

But then, your “tight enough” may be 2Nm, or 3Nm where the stated is 2.5.

 

[timhoward]

I'd have a a couple of "PlusMinus" screwdrivers for consumer units much higher up the list than a torque one.

 

[Steady Steve]

The only thing where a torque driver would need to be used is a consumer unit, where there is a Nm value stated for tightening terminals.
If your just starting out, you won’t be doing many of them.

It is argued that too tight can be as bad as too loose, but as you progress, you’ll get a sixth sense with a manual driver whether it’s too tight or loose….

But then, your “tight enough” may be 2Nm, or 3Nm where the stated is 2.5.

That's useful to know. I should have tightened a few terminals by the time my training takes me to consumer units.

 

[Steady Steve]

I'd have a a couple of "PlusMinus" screwdrivers for consumer units much higher up the list than a torque one.

I'm glad that having a torque is not obligatory, and so I'll focus on having a couple of plus minus - I've heard it before and it makes sense now.

 

[telectrix]

I'm glad that having a torque is not obligatory, and so I'll focus on having a couple of plus minus - I've heard it before and it makes sense now.

might have a couple of +/- spare. if i can find them you can have them cheap. I'm just outsideof Northwich, so easy pick upif I have them.

 

[SJD]

You might not need a torque screwdriver for day to day use, but I'd suggest you need one in your toolbox once you are completing jobs like consumer unit changes. So that you have the means to tighten terminals to manufacturer's specifications, even if you think you can do it accurately enough without.

Years ago, my college tutor told us of a court case, where an electrican was asked about the content of his toolbox, and it didn't include a torque screwdriver. He was then asked how me managed to tighten the terminals to the correct values. He had no defence. Don't recall the rest of the details (I think something caught fire).

 

[pc1966]

The only +/- ones I have are bits for my torque screwdriver!

But they do make a difference as often the screw heads are easy to damage at higher torques, even if to begin with you are just given the job of dismantling stuff so unscrewing a tight fastener.

For many years the skill of sensibly tightening terminals was something that was learned as an apprentice, etc, so you could reliably make connections that would not undo with vibration or thermal cycling, as well as not leading to damage to the wire and/or cable clamp itself. But with the number of botched installations presenting a fire risk the industry has moved towards the use of torque tools to try and reduce dependency on such skill and to help get better control over results.

Also a torque set is quite a handy way to get a feel for what is correct for 2Nm, etc, but you can probably borrow one for such a trial.

That is much the same as garages have been for last 50+ years, most bolts/nuts are done by hand, but critical ones like cylinder head, water pump, driveshaft, etc, finished with a torque wrench.

Another factor is stuff being poorly done and often damaged on assembly is monkeys using an impact wrench. Except for some very specific tools, NEVER use a power tool on electrical terminals! Most impact drivers will, even at the lowest setting, hammer the faster home to a much higher torque that most can cope with. Typically the only ones likely to survive are going to be M8 or larger studs, etc. A moment's carelessness with my own impact driver (Milwaukee M18FID2) resulted in me shearing a M6 roofing screw when assembling cable try, so I am not joking!

Having said that, my impact driver is a most excellent tool to have (though not the cheapest) for drilling with the hex-shank bits, using the 20mm - 32mm hole saws for glands, etc, and for mechanical assembly/disassembly on larger wood screws or bolts as it really gets the job done quickly.

TL;DR Concentrate on basic hand tools first (as @nicebutdim said), then look at some useful power tools for mechanical work and as you get to assembly CU or other stuff with high current terminals then look at a torque set.

 

[pc1966]

You might not need a torque screwdriver for day to day use, but I'd suggest you need one in your toolbox once you are completing jobs like consumer unit changes. So that you have the means to tighten terminals to manufacturer's specifications, even if you think you can do it accurately enough without.

Years ago, my college tutor told us of a court case, where an electrician was asked about the content of his toolbox, and it didn't include a torque screwdriver. He was then asked how me managed to tighten the terminals to the correct values. He had no defence. Don't recall the rest of the details (I think something caught fire).

Very good point!

 

[timhoward]

I really shouldn't admit this...but for several years I had something rather like this, picked up for about a tenner. Intended for bicycle use.
Obviously NOT insulated and lethal if not concentrating, but it indicated 2-10nm and got me by. (Some screws are less than 2nm on some consumer units, especially on earth and neutral bars.)

When I mislaid about 5 years ago I finally bought a proper Armeg set.

There is a modern bike tool that does 1-8nm and costs £39 but that is getting too close to the Toolstation £64 Draper 1-5nm VDE offering to be worth scrimping on.
So don't do what I did!

 

[Rockingit]

Another factor is stuff being poorly done and often damaged on assembly is monkeys using an impact wrench. Except for some very specific tools, NEVER use a power tool on electrical terminals! Most impact drivers will, even at the lowest setting, hammer the faster home to a much higher torque that most can cope with. Typically the only ones likely to survive are going to be M8 or larger studs, etc. A moment's carelessness with my own impact driver (Milwaukee M18FID2) resulted in me shearing a M6 roofing screw when assembling cable try, so I am not joking!

Having said that, my impact driver is a most excellent tool to have (though not the cheapest) for drilling with the hex-shank bits, using the 20mm - 32mm hole saws for glands, etc, and for mechanical assembly/disassembly on larger wood screws or bolts as it really gets the job done quickly.

I have an impact WRENCH (1/2") that I use constantly for deep socket 15/17/19mm work in generator busbar chambers, turns a 2m job into a 1s one - however - it's a Makita one with clever adjustable modes, so it's set so that as soon as it starts to actually impact it shuts off automatically so that you have more control over the final few 1/4 turns. Likewise it senses when the nut is loose and stops spinning so that you don't end up with it flying off. But I can't think that I've ever used a motorised tool on a standard terminal screw, or fixing plate, EVER in my now 34 years of sparkying. As the old saying goes.... "It's only fun until someone (or thing!) gets hurt"

 

[pc1966]

There is a modern bike tool that does 1-8nm and costs £39 but that is getting too close to the Toolstation £64 Draper 1-5nm VDE offering to be worth scrimping on.
So don't do what I did!

I have a selection of torque wrenches and screwdriver-like drivers for mechanical work and so I use them when needed for big terminals.

It makes me very uncomfortable, even when I have done the safe isolation and double checked everything, to be gripping such a large metal object that is now going on to a normally live terminal! Usually I make sure I'm not in contact with anything else, one time I donned my 1kV "you have been Tangoed" gloves as a precaution.

If I did more of that as a profession then I would spend the ~£1k on a VDE socket set and matching torque wrench(s) but as I have only needed to do so a few times in the last year or two I didn't.

 

[pc1966]

I have an impact WRENCH (1/2") that I use constantly for deep socket 15/17/19mm work in generator busbar chambers, turns a 2m job into a 1s one

Makes sense when the tool is able to deliver the torque control needed for the job.

Other than one special (and quite expensive) driver that was intended for speedy screw terminal work I really can't abide such tools used on screw terminals though. Was it Whia that made it? Cost about £300

My Milwaukee conventional battery power drill fails on this front as the torque control is not a mechanical adjustable slip-coupler but appears to be electronic motor control. What they seem to have overlooked is the equivalent inertia of a geared-down motor, it still tries to wrench itself from my hand when it jams, etc

Found it £282 inc VAT:

https://cpc.farnell.com/wiha/42267/screwdriver-speede-set-2-uk-spec/dp/TL19981?MER=sy-me-pd-mi-alte

 

[Rockingit]

Found it £282 inc VAT:

https://cpc.farnell.com/wiha/42267/screwdriver-speede-set-2-uk-spec/dp/TL19981?MER=sy-me-pd-mi-alte

There again...... it IS my birthday in a couple of days......

 

[pc1966]

I just checked the spec for my hex impact wrench:

• Mode 1 : 119 Nm / 0 - 1,900 rpm / 0 - 1,200 ipm
• Mode 2 : 176 Nm / 0 - 2,800 rpm / 0 - 3,400 ipm
• Mode 3 : 226 Nm / 0 - 3,600 rpm / 0 - 4,300 ipm
• Mode 4 : Self-tapping / faster installation time by reducing stripping of fasteners.

So it is pretty obvious why I was able to trash an M6 steel screw with it!

They also do a quieter hydraulic version, about £100 more, but its spec is 40Nm so while stupidly high by electrical terminal work, more reasonable.

From memory a typical M8 high tensile (8.8) bolt/nut is around 30Nm but for electrical use with lower strength materials probably half that.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Most 'electricians' these days use an 18v impact to do consumer units , in fact the 18v impact seems to be used for pretty much everything

 

[pc1966]

Most 'electricians' these days use an 18v impact to do consumer units , in fact the 18v impact seems to be used for pretty much everything

Ah, you mean the YouTube attentionwhores ?

 

[Petej999]

Most 'electricians' these days use an 18v impact to do consumer units , in fact the 18v impact seems to be used for pretty much everything

If you are a cowboy electrician !!!!

 

[Rockingit]

If you are a cowboy electrician !!!!

Way back a few years ago we had really bad 'proper' snow down here and nobody could get anywhere as it's all small roads that get gritted last, I had some housecalls to do, just 10 min maintenance type stuff and I seriously considered riding out on my then step-daughters horse to go and get to them, thought it would be a nice novelty piece for the local rag - 'the electrician that always delivers no matter what' kind of nonsense. Then all the Cowboy Electrician potential jokes occurred to me so I refrained!!

 

[LewisM]

You'd have to really give it some with a screwdriver to damage a MCB or cable so a torque screwdriver I think is not worth the money but if you're doing anything that requires things like spanners, ratchets, hex keys etc then I'd use torque wrench or similar as it's very easy to overtighten fasteners/terminals as you have much more leverage and force

 

[Rockingit]

You'd have to really give it some with a screwdriver to damage a MCB

Not so sure I'm with you on that one - a pet hate is when the casing wants to split on a device terminal when you actually properly tighten it, even by hand

 

[pc1966]

Then all the Cowboy Electrician potential jokes occurred to me so I refrained!!

There is/was a local small plumbing company run by a few Asian guys, they had the advert line "Tired of the cowboys? Call the Indians" not sure that would be acceptable these days!

 

[MJPD29]

There is/was a local small plumbing company run by a few Asian guys, they had the advert line "Tired of the cowboys? Call the Indians" not sure that would be acceptable these days!

Probably not people cry at the smallest of things now. But smart nonetheless

 

[catdog1121]

Some of these comments are just crazy...

SJD made the best comment... BS7671 which we use to cover our butts, if something goes wrong we can stand up in court and say it was not our fault cause we followed BS7671.... In there it states that electrical equipment must be installed by manufacturers instructions.. If the manufacturer specifies a certain torque level then how will you tighten it to that exact torque level without a torque screw driver? If you dont use a torque screwdriver you havent followed manufacturers instructions, if you havent followed manufacturers instructions you havent followed BS7671, if you havent followed BS7671 then you dont have a leg to stand on...

As for the impact driver, I hope that was a joke, I have one of those fancy Makita impact drivers, I still can break a no6 screw sometimes on the softest of setting with a bit of a slip and too many dugga dugga's.. They are great for quickly putting up cleats or screwing into wood etc but are too powerful no matter what setting you have it on for a terminal screw and risk causing damage that you sometimes cannot see..

There has been some great videos on both these topics by efixx, check it out..

 

[nicebutdim]

Some of these comments are just crazy...

SJD made the best comment... BS7671 which we use to cover our butts, if something goes wrong we can stand up in court and say it was not our fault cause we followed BS7671.... In there it states that electrical equipment must be installed by manufacturers instructions.. If the manufacturer specifies a certain torque level then how will you tighten it to that exact torque level without a torque screw driver? If you dont use a torque screwdriver you havent followed manufacturers instructions, if you havent followed manufacturers instructions you havent followed BS7671, if you havent followed BS7671 then you dont have a leg to stand on...

As for the impact driver, I hope that was a joke, I have one of those fancy Makita impact drivers, I still can break a no6 screw sometimes on the softest of setting with a bit of a slip and too many dugga dugga's.. They are great for quickly putting up cleats or screwing into wood etc but are too powerful no matter what setting you have it on for a terminal screw and risk causing damage that you sometimes cannot see..

There has been some great videos on both these topics by efixx, check it out..

OP is a guy starting out as a trainee.

Thread went sideways as expected, but I think he gets the drift that no trainee will be expected to turn up on their first day with anything more than a basic range of tools - certainly not a torque screwdriver.

What I would suggest to the OP is keeping an eye on tools you intend buying in the future - maybe even a list on Amazon where everything can be kept in one place. As offers appear from various suppliers, you can save a significant amount. Even basic hand tools can vary by £10-20 from one place to the next, so plan ahead and keep costs to a minimum.

 

[MJPD29]

Some of these comments are just crazy...

SJD made the best comment... BS7671 which we use to cover our butts, if something goes wrong we can stand up in court and say it was not our fault cause we followed BS7671.... In there it states that electrical equipment must be installed by manufacturers instructions.. If the manufacturer specifies a certain torque level then how will you tighten it to that exact torque level without a torque screw driver? If you dont use a torque screwdriver you havent followed manufacturers instructions, if you havent followed manufacturers instructions you havent followed BS7671, if you havent followed BS7671 then you dont have a leg to stand on...

As for the impact driver, I hope that was a joke, I have one of those fancy Makita impact drivers, I still can break a no6 screw sometimes on the softest of setting with a bit of a slip and too many dugga dugga's.. They are great for quickly putting up cleats or screwing into wood etc but are too powerful no matter what setting you have it on for a terminal screw and risk causing damage that you sometimes cannot see..

There has been some great videos on both these topics by efixx, check it out..

I am extremely confident fitting an mcb without a torque screwdriver. Extremely confident. As for the non compliance unless your an incompetent idiot who can't tighten a terminal screw or tightens it to the point it splits the breaker it's not an issue. Starting out as an apprentice he most certainly does not need a torque screwdriver yet.

 

[catdog1121]

I am extremely confident fitting an mcb without a torque screwdriver. Extremely confident. As for the non compliance unless your an incompetent idiot who can't tighten a terminal screw or tightens it to the point it splits the breaker it's not an issue. Starting out as an apprentice he most certainly does not need a torque screwdriver yet.

Well done, the problem is still some muppet comes in after you and does not tighten it properly afterwards, this causes a fire in which the whole family die, it is found the fire was due to a lose connection, using building compliance certificate it is found that you recently installed the consumer unit..

You end up in the dock and the first thing they ask is "Do you have a torque screw driver"... Your answer is "No".... They show you the big blue book and ask "Do you know what this is?" You reply "Well yes its BS7671 18th edition"... They ask did you comply with BS7671 when installing the consumer unit?"... You reply "Well obviously yes"... They then ask "So how did you achieve the correct torque settings required by the manufacturer which is also part of BS7671 installing equipment to manufacturers instructions?"

You are going to rely on "Its alright judge I am extremely confident, I dont need to comply with BS7671 cause im not a complete idiot who cant tighten a terminal screw correctly, it must have been someone else after me."

My point is even if you have actually done a good job, the fact that you cant show you complied with BS7671 could get you in trouble..

I am not saying its the first tool an apprentice needs but as soon as they are fully qualified and the buck is stopping with them then I would say yes it is important just to cover yourself.

I have to say it is amazing how tight 2.5nm actually is and I bet you would be surprised how far off you actually are, and how inconsistent you are, I don't care who you are how long you have been doing it you cannot get the correct torque setting using your arm alone and as its basically now a requirement of BS7671 if you are not using one you are not complying with BS7671, if your not complying with BS7671 then are you not really a bit of a cowboy? Honestly for the cost just buy one and you will be amazed how much more you need to tighten some of the terminals especially the higher range 2.5-3nm, you really have to hold on and crank it.

 

[PEG]

You might not need a torque screwdriver for day to day use, but I'd suggest you need one in your toolbox once you are completing jobs like consumer unit changes. So that you have the means to tighten terminals to manufacturer's specifications, even if you think you can do it accurately enough without.

Years ago, my college tutor told us of a court case, where an electrican was asked about the content of his toolbox, and it didn't include a torque screwdriver. He was then asked how me managed to tighten the terminals to the correct values. He had no defence. Don't recall the rest of the details (I think something caught fire).

Hi,i reckon that college tutor would struggle to provide the details of that case,to make his point....

Any electrician,could justifiably state,that his ability to know if the terminals were adequately tightened,was due to training,and experience.

Tracing the cause of a fire,to a possible loose terminal,is a reasonable expectation,pending investigation,but asserting that the reason for it,was initial incorrect torque,would be extremely tricky.

As we all know,terminals can become "less torqued",for many reasons,temperature,vibration.....even repeated switching of MCB's on a busbar with some movement in it.

I have many instances where the correct torque,has resulted in either a terminal which was not sufficiently tight....or one which sheared off,before the correct torque was reached ......a manufacturer's instruction,should never trump a qualified opinion.

I think many of these types of story,are intended as instructional rhetoric,with the good intention, being a lecture point....which i can half understand.

I would like to think,that if the electrician in the story,had said he used his torque screwdriver,and the using of it allowed his defence.....the opposing brief,in order to justify his 800 dabs an hour,then asked him ".....and of course,you know the torque was correct,because you have a current and regular calibration of this device...."

There are a lot of electricians out there,who terminate correctly and adequately,while a torque screwdriver sits in their tool bag,like the squeeky penguin,at the back of the shelf,on Toy Story

 

[MJPD29]

Well done, the problem is still some muppet comes in after you and does not tighten it properly afterwards, this causes a fire in which the whole family die, it is found the fire was due to a lose connection, using building compliance certificate it is found that you recently installed the consumer unit..

You end up in the dock and the first thing they ask is "Do you have a torque screw driver"... Your answer is "No".... They show you the big blue book and ask "Do you know what this is?" You reply "Well yes its BS7671 18th edition"... They ask did you comply with BS7671 when installing the consumer unit?"... You reply "Well obviously yes"... They then ask "So how did you achieve the correct torque settings required by the manufacturer which is also part of BS7671 installing equipment to manufacturers instructions?"

You are going to rely on "Its alright judge I am extremely confident, I dont need to comply with BS7671 cause im not a complete idiot who cant tighten a terminal screw correctly, it must have been someone else after me."

My point is even if you have actually done a good job, the fact that you cant show you complied with BS7671 could get you in trouble..

I am not saying its the first tool an apprentice needs but as soon as they are fully qualified and the buck is stopping with them then I would say yes it is important just to cover yourself.

I have to say it is amazing how tight 2.5nm actually is and I bet you would be surprised how far off you actually are, and how inconsistent you are, I don't care who you are how long you have been doing it you cannot get the correct torque setting using your arm alone and as its basically now a requirement of BS7671 if you are not using one you are not complying with BS7671, if your not complying with BS7671 then are you not really a bit of a cowboy? Honestly for the cost just buy one and you will be amazed how much more you need to tighten some of the terminals especially the higher range 2.5-3nm, you really have to hold on and crank it.

To summarise loosely, because i don't have a screwdriver families will die? Thank god I don't get involved in domestic work I'd be a mass murderer by this stage

 

[littlespark]

I don’t know if I opened a can of worms here, but @PEG has certainly emptied a sack of comma’s on his post.

Back to the original question.

Do you need a torque driver? No. Not at the stage you’re at.

 

[nicebutdim]

I am not saying its the first tool an apprentice needs but as soon as they are fully qualified and the buck is stopping with them then I would say yes it is important just to cover yourself.

First year apprentices shouldn't be working unsupervised and certainly not on DBs. As such it's fairly apparent that they won't need a torque screwdriver this early in their career.

 

[Dustydazzler]

You can pick up a Draper vde torque screwdriver set for about 70 quid on Amazon , so in reality if I were an apprentice I might be tempted to get a torque sooner or later.

 

[nicebutdim]

OP's question:

I've just started my training and am interested in what tools are essential when first starting out.

 

[littlespark]

Amazon are known to make mistakes. I ended up with two wiha torkies.

I sent the extra one back of course.

 

[catdog1121]

First year apprentices shouldn't be working unsupervised and certainly not on DBs. As such it's fairly apparent that they won't need a torque screwdriver this early in their career.

Um I think thats exactly what I said, I said as soon as they are fully qualified and the buck stops with them.. A fully qualified electrician that is responsible for their work is clearly not an apprentice..

 

[catdog1121]

To summarise loosely, because i don't have a screwdriver families will die? Thank god I don't get involved in domestic work I'd be a mass murderer by this stage

Wow totally missed the point.. Thats not what I said and the worst summary.. A better summary would be using a torque screw driver proves you complied with BS7671 which covers your --- in the event of a problem even it it was not your fault...

Your argument is the same as someone that can drive but does not have a driving license.. Why do they need a driving license, they can drive, they have not got into an accident so why do they need one?