Dodgy trade pictures for your amusement! - 1 Million Views!

[Darkwood]

Right ... Just been nudged to set this up by Paul.M and sounds a good idea following recent threads I've done in the Arms..

Rules....No Offensive material... edit if required before posting as this is the public arena.
Anything to do with the trade or in and around it ...H&S pic's welcome.



I've posted this a few times and this is at a mates house following a kitchen refirb several yrs ago. mg_smile:

 

[Raptor0014]

So they only instruct after an installation has been completed and upon inspection, if one is carried out, not on the existing installation prior to work starting, which is how I read your post 5278, thanks for clarifying that point.

Yes they only inspect after by way of audit. Me as the installer is mandated to check prior to installation. If upon audit they deem the existing installation has work that needs to be rectified then yes they do instruct it is done.

I know of 2 people who were told to liaise with the DNO to get a cutout up graded and they also had to upgrade the tails.

They’re not expecting a full EICR. But they are expecting the installation to be in a suitable safe condition for the charger to be added.

Also as an installer you have to be able to say yes to the statement in the ENA form that says
"I confirm that the existing installation is in accordance with the current edition of the Building Regulations Part P (Electrical Safety – Dwellings) and in full compliance with the requirements of the current edition of the UK wiring regulations (BS7671)"

C2 Codes are not in accordance with either part P or 7671.

 

[ipf]

Regarding the above.
Somehow, I'm not seeing much wrong with this. Different, I know, but seems like a version of the old town council 'clerk of works' type system, making sure that things are done well. The main difference being that the upgrades necessary aren't involved in the original job requirements or specification......directly.
It seems like another way of putting the responsibility onto the contractor, as per usual, then providing an inspection system to check all is done correctly.
I used to get situations, whilst pricing for 'off the cuff' council jobs, where I would be expected to notify if there were any other issues with the existing installation and adjust the price accordingly.
I don't know much about it but maybe OZEV is going back to being more thorough about the whole thing....and maybe upsetting some by seemingly being a bit old fashioned.

Note. Then, all council employed electrical contractors had to be NICEIC members..................when it really meant something to be one.

 

[Raptor0014]

Regarding the above.
Somehow, I'm not seeing much wrong with this. Different, I know, but seems like a version of the old town council 'clerk of works' type system, making sure that things are done well. The main difference being that the upgrades necessary aren't involved in the original job requirements or specification......directly.
It seems like another way of putting the responsibility onto the contractor, as per usual, then providing an inspection system to check all is done correctly.
I used to get situations, whilst pricing for 'off the cuff' council jobs, where I would be expected to notify if there were any other issues with the existing installation and adjust the price accordingly.
I don't know much about it but maybe OZEV is going back to being more thorough about the whole thing....and maybe upsetting some by seemingly being a bit old fashioned.

Note. Then, all council employed electrical contractors had to be NICEIC members..................when it really meant something to be approved.

I agree and personally don’t have an issue with my work being checked. I am far from perfect and quite happy to be shown areas I need to improve. I like to think my work is of a good standard. But always willing to learn from the more experienced

I’m actually glad they’re doing it as it was becoming a race to the bottom with EV installs.

Customers naturally want the cheapest option possible for the same equipment. But when you have installers just throwing them onto installations in that condition, often way cheaper than I ever could as they were contracted by a big firm. Then it was affecting the quality of the workmanship and in some cases the safety.

Eg this one. Which was first installed by a so called qualified and competent installer on a 115v commando with the inlet on the supply side. So exposed live pins.

Then when it was ‘rectified it still wasn’t done correctly as it wasn’t using an interlocked socket which is mandatory in a residential setting.

But the customer saved £200 by using this particular installer.

 

[Teddy Lop]

Such a waste of money those IP rated connections when you can just choc it and splurge the silicon..!

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNeaRqDZF5_Ax0m-IAH3sPwFGsbdAKAIjwse8hP
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNeaRqDZF5_Ax0m-IAH3sPwFGsbdAKAIjwse8hP

 

[Teddy Lop]

recent EICRs:

The terminals for the earth right? (seen this a many times...)

clik'n'bang

note scorch marks:

How much effort did this "fix" take?

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMby5zRmx4-_o_OaFnOEXvbENVE2f4_XDPgdox7

 

[brianmoooore]

What on earth are those last two pics about? Looks like a bodge on a bodge on a bodge, and why's there a light in a cupboard?

 

[freddo]

and why's there a light in a cupboard?

To plug in the light on the cupboard! Why else would it be there?

 

[westward10]

This is what happens on an EICR when you start undoing stuff.

 

[telectrix]

What on earth are those last two pics about? Looks like a bodge on a bodge on a bodge, and why's there a light in a cupboard?

because it's a dark cupboard.

 

[Raptor0014]

This is another one I found on an EICR that I need to sort.

Tails are ran in SWA to the CU which in a straight line from that position is 4.5m. So will likely be circa 6-8m with the routing. The CU is in the airing cupboard which is in the middle of the upstairs with a bedroom either side and it’s at the back of the house. The meter is on the front left side of the house.

Yet there’s no OCPD for them apart from the DNO fuse. I do wonder who designs these things at times.

I‘m hoping there’s enough slack in the cable to re-gland and terminate inside a metal clad switched fuse. Can see this being a fun one to do.

 

[Julie.]

Inventive!

 

[timhoward]

That will indeed be interesting.
Is the angled piece of board the head is on attached to anything?!
Not many small switched fuses have side entry.
I think I’d be trying to terminate the SWA shorter and crimp onto tails, then use one of those Lewden fuses designed for tails in and out as they aren’t that big. It could replace the isolator too.

 

[Raptor0014]

That will indeed be interesting.
Is the angled piece of board the head is on attached to anything?!
Not many small switched fuses have side entry.
I think I’d be trying to terminate the SWA shorter and crimp onto tails, then use one of those Lewden fuses designed for tails in and out as they aren’t that big. It could replace the isolator too.

I’m going to remove the isolator and put in a metal clad switch fuse. Something like this.

FuseBox 100A Fused Switch 1P+N Isolator

FuseBox 100A fused switch 1 pole and neutral isolator, includes gG fuses 63A, 80A and 100A. Alternative to Lewden switched fused isolator.Key FeaturesTails Clamp: Yes, (maximum 25mm²)Finish: White (RAL9003)Material: SteelIP rating: IP20Max. Load: 100A / AC21Voltage: 230V / 50HzProduct code...

www.expertelectrical.co.uk

I can hoped drill a hole in the side of that to gland the SWA. Just may have to crimp to extend the SWA inside. But that will be double heatshrink covered if I do. Just need to hope it’s not a slide on cover that the sides come away with. Otherwise I’ll need a rethink.

Although I have a feeling that SWA may only be 16mm

I can’t really crimp it to use a KMF as I need to terminate the SWA into something.

The angled board is fastened the the back board.

 

[Raptor0014]

Seems the fuse box version won’t work.

So will have to use this instead.

nx3-4-100fs chint sp & n fused switch unit c/w 100a fuse

Chint have a global supply network with branched and regional offices in the USA, Middle East, Germany, Russia, Brazil, Ukraine, Hong Kong, and Great Britain. As you can imagine their product range is vast which includes MCB’S, RCBO’S, Contactors, Distribution Boards, Home consumer units, Motor...

www.ledcontrols.co.uk

 

[timhoward]

Seems the fuse box version won’t work.

Yes, that is what I meant by most of them not having side entry.
The Chint idea looks possible.
One possible idea/suggestion. Replace the butchered Wiska box, gland the SWA to this, slide behind the angled board and change to tails inside the Wiska box, and then use a KMF?

 

[Raptor0014]

Yes, that is what I meant by most of them not having side entry.
The Chint idea looks possible.
One possible idea/suggestion. Replace the butchered Wiska box, gland the SWA to this, slide behind the angled board and change to tails inside the Wiska box, and then use a KMF?

But isn’t a wiska only rated at max 57a?

So I’d either have to stick a Henley inside or crimp and find a different 100amp rated enclosure?

 

[Raptor0014]

Not electrical. But the award for this years plumber of the year goes to….

Currently doing an EICR on the same property and the first thing I see (after nearly tripping over the plumbing) as I walk in the garage where the CU is located. But it’s ok as it’s above head height…..

This is also ok in the bedroom as they know to hold it as they plug/unplug stuff

 

[timhoward]

But isn’t a wiska only rated at max 57a?

That's a good point that I overlooked. Maybe an ABB box, no specified current limit, just a max temperature of 650 degrees?! (compared to 100 degrees for Wiska).
Or just use the Chint....maybe your way was best!

 

[Deleted account]

Seems the fuse box version won’t work. View attachment 94840

So will have to use this instead.

nx3-4-100fs chint sp & n fused switch unit c/w 100a fuse

Chint have a global supply network with branched and regional offices in the USA, Middle East, Germany, Russia, Brazil, Ukraine, Hong Kong, and Great Britain. As you can imagine their product range is vast which includes MCB’S, RCBO’S, Contactors, Distribution Boards, Home consumer units, Motor...

www.ledcontrols.co.uk

try the wylex one. I always use these. Really robust and side entry possible.

100 Amp SP & N Switchfuse - Metal - 100A Fuse Fitted | Wylex (DSF100M)

 

[Raptor0014]

try the wylex one. I always use these. Really robust and side entry possible.

100 Amp SP & N Switchfuse - Metal - 100A Fuse Fitted | Wylex (DSF100M)

Can it be wired with the meter supply in from the top and out to the CU from the bottom? I am assuming yes, but wanted to check before I ordered it.

 

[pc1966]

Can it be wired with the meter supply in from the top and out to the CU from the bottom? I am assuming yes, but wanted to check before I ordered it.

I have no idea. There is a picture of the innards on the CEF site but I can't see any lable to say if one is input and other output:

100A SP+N Metal Switch Fuse

Metal door and robust metal enclosure, 1.0mm thick steel with low smoke and fume epoxy paint finish

www.cef.co.uk

I doubt it is like the Schneider quadbreak switches where both fuse ends are isolated when off so direction unimportant, but hopefully if you pull the fuse cartridge forward it is isolated before you can touch the end!

 

[Raptor0014]

I have no idea. There is a picture of the innards on the CEF site but I can't see any lable to say if one is input and other output:

100A SP+N Metal Switch Fuse

Metal door and robust metal enclosure, 1.0mm thick steel with low smoke and fume epoxy paint finish

www.cef.co.uk

I doubt it is like the Schneider quadbreak switches where both fuse ends are isolated when off so direction unimportant, but hopefully if you pull the fuse cartridge forward it is isolated before you can touch the end!

Appears they are fed from the bottom. So this is going to be fun as I either need to crimp that SWA to extend, or hope there is enough slack there to re-gland and terminate it longer.

 

[JosephandAmber]

RCBO for outside lights tripping. Turned out that all the brick lights had the backs cut out of them and this was the attempt at a waterproof connection - Heat-shrink over connector block with some silicone on each end.

 

[Deleted account]

RCBO for outside lights tripping. Turned out that all the brick lights had the backs cut out of them and this was the attempt at a waterproof connection - Heat-shrink over connector block with some silicone on each end.


View attachment 95000

To be fair those brick lights a near impossible to waterproof.

 

[LewisM]

Some questionable conduit work

 

[SparkySy]

Had Western Power out yesterday to a factory shut down so they could assess the incoming supply and fuses. I went round and switched off as much of the distribution as possible before switching off the 200a switch fuse for the whole installation. We sat there for a second or two in silence before I heard a gas blown air heater kick in, mmm that's strange I said that was the main switch for everything?! We agreed to remove the main cut out fuses and have a look in the 200a switch fuse. Oh dear some quality bodgery gone on in the past then!

So that's a 2.5mm twin with the earth cut out, onto the incoming side of a 200a switch fuse with the 120mm tails backed up by a 200a network distribution fuse!!

 

[pc1966]

So that's a 2.5mm twin with the earth cut out, onto the incoming side of a 200a switch fuse with the 120mm tails backed up by a 200a network distribution fuse!!

Am I also spotting a lack of CPC connection to add some icing on that cake-of-fail ?

 

[ipf]

Had Western Power out yesterday to a factory shut down so they could assess the incoming supply and fuses. I went round and switched off as much of the distribution as possible before switching off the 200a switch fuse for the whole installation. We sat there for a second or two in silence before I heard a gas blown air heater kick in, mmm that's strange I said that was the main switch for everything?! We agreed to remove the main cut out fuses and have a look in the 200a switch fuse. Oh dear some quality bodgery gone on in the past then!
View attachment 95015
View attachment 95016
So that's a 2.5mm twin with the earth cut out, onto the incoming side of a 200a switch fuse with the 120mm tails backed up by a 200a network distribution fuse!!

What IS the use of having an earth conductor in T&E?

 

[Deleted account]

Am I also spotting a lack of CPC connection to add some icing on that cake-of-fail ?

I think an earth would be Pointless as no amount of earth fault current would blow the non existent fuse.

so some thought went into the installation.

 

[pc1966]

What IS the use of having an earth conductor in T&E?

In this case it is the fuse!

 

[pc1966]

Also red/black, so either a bodge from an old circuit moved from the DB, or a time bomb that has been waiting patiently for a fault over two decades.

 

[SparkySy]

Yes a time bomb waiting to go off! This is the installation in question.

The main isolator is the one bottom right, the supply tails run in the trunking below it from the main intake just out of shot on the left.
The original work was very well done and this set up is repeated in the same building further up, it's just all the carp work done since that leaves a lot to the imagination!

This is in the next factory shop 2 rooms up from the supply intake!

 

[SparkySy]

Definitely a lot of C's of all descriptions in this one!
While there I was asked to look at an Anyak lathe 30kw 3phase (nice bit of kit) behaving badly! On inspection of the supply I found this!

Faulty L1 phase on the MCB not passing current through it. I was then told this trips out many times a week! Mmm wonder why!

 

[pc1966]

Yes a time bomb waiting to go off! This is the installation in question.

I'm just wondering how someone with such an obvious abject lack of electrical knowledge managed to attached to the permanent live side without killing themselves.

 

[SparkySy]

Myself and the DNO engineer were of the same opinion as all the main seals were all intact on the cut out and metal supply intake cabinet! We came to the conclusion they either were damn stupid and incredibly lucky or they had some serious balls of steel!

 

[pc1966]

Myself and the DNO engineer were of the same opinion as all the main seals were all intact on the cut out and metal supply intake cabinet!

A marvel!

We came to the conclusion they either were damn stupid and incredibly lucky or they had some serious balls of steel!

Bigger balls than brain...

 

[freddo]

I was asked if this was safe:

 

[ipf]

Myself and the DNO engineer were of the same opinion as all the main seals were all intact on the cut out and metal supply intake cabinet! We came to the conclusion they either were damn stupid and incredibly lucky or they had some serious balls of steel!

Yep. Beyond comprehension is that.

Could say 'they deserved to fry like pancakes'.......to$$ers

 

[SparkySy]

Even with hot gloves arc protection and insulated sockets or spanners it would have been lethal and I wouldn't have wanted to trap the 2.5 under the washer! Imagine if there had been a fault on that circuit as it was connected live

 

[nicebutdim]

Even with hot gloves arc protection and insulated sockets or spanners it would have been lethal and I wouldn't have wanted to trap the 2.5 under the washer! Imagine if there had been a fault on that circuit as it was connected live

That's the part which perplexes me - I can't see it having been connected live, but can't imagine anyone with authorisation to shut a place down carrying out such work.