Domestic consumer upgrades

Christian1981 · Mar 10, 2019

Hi I’m a commercial electrician and don’t do much domestic work and was just looking for some advice on pricing consumer unit upgrades. I’m vat registered and have been told about people charging £495 plus vat for dual rcd board and £795 plus vat for RCBOs

Andy78 · Mar 16, 2019

Just been to look at a job myself. Local takeaway been open since December. They had a full renovation prior to opening including a full rewire. All looks very smart.
Recent leaks in the front canopy have tracked down the pendant flexes causing tripping of the RCD. The only RCD, that takes out all circuits. In the second hand chint board fitted on what looks otherwise like quite a good job. No cert of course and the electrical firm that did the install are currently "working out of town".

telectrix · Mar 16, 2019

back on the ranch, no doubt.

Wilko · Mar 16, 2019

With the impact on business, I just don't get why folks don't go rcbo throughout.
My visit to a premises the other day was based on Customer (friend of Wifey) complaining their leccie bill was too high -"that can't be right, I'm paying for the whole building ...". I attended but after 10minutes I got bored with looking at tails and meters (no obvious problem), I went up to the kitchen and I could hear water running. Washing up? Maybe. Anyway it turns out their dual immersion was busy day and night trying to keep the tank water warm as it poured out the (failed open) prv into the tundish. "How long's this been going on I ask." ... "It's always made that noise " she replied. Plumber got a job and I got a coffee.

Richy · Mar 17, 2019

telectrix said:
that's a bit steep. my prices would be nearer £350 /£500, respectively depending on no. of ways and accessibility. not including any remedial works to circuits,bonding etc.

Richy · Mar 17, 2019

I can't understand why so many electricians undervalue their work. They train hard and have high overheads..and charge a measly £350 for a consumer unit upgrade.This involves care and attention and insurance warranties etc. Not to mention testing every connected circuit and then recording and registering a certificate with the local authority.
Its time electricians wake up and smell the coffee. £495.00 for a 10 way split sounds perfectly reasonable to me.I would like to get this but I have to settle for £425.00. Due to cheapskate guvvy job leccys installing them on the side tax exempt with no certificate or insurance blahdy blah.
I have tested some cheapy jobs and had to recommend improvements because of cut corners...especially tests on dangerous c1s left in place.
Price it right and you won't need to rush it or cut corners...have some pride in your profession .

SparkyChick · Mar 17, 2019

It's not a case of undervaluing our work, it's just a case of charging what the local market will stomach.

@telectrix mentioned a job he missed out on the other day, I missed out on a similar job (replace two PIR floods, move old floods to garage replacing two non PIR floods). I err'd on the side of caution and used my standard 1 hour per light pricing strategy (which seems reasonable and provides some accommodation for unexpected issues, so 4 hours or half a day). £120 + materials.

I lost out because I was 'significantly' more expensive than who ever got the job.

Deleted member 26818 · Mar 17, 2019

Not sure whether that £425 includes the cost of the CU?

Deleted account · Mar 17, 2019

When pricing I aim for £250-£300 per day. This allows for overrunning of jobs or unexpected issues and return visits if products I supply go wrong.

this also covers the sourcing of materials invoicing quotes etc...

Richy · Mar 17, 2019

I would like to see us all agree a fixed labour rate for as many specific jobs as possible.
Ie £425.00 for a 10 way split.
£40.00 per hour short term work.
£250.00 per day minimum per man.
Feel free to throw some figures in lets have a debate on this.
I would also like to see a local blacklist of repeat non payers.

SparkyChick · Mar 17, 2019

I hate to say it but that's like trying to have 28 countries all with a unified economic policy and currency... it's not exactly working out well.

The problem is my overheads are different to your overheads which are different to the next persons, and it all depends on your target market and local economy.

And regardless of what decent sparks agree, there is always going to be that bloke down the pub who'll do it for £50.

Deleted account · Mar 17, 2019

A debate would not help due to regional variations in cost of living and affluence.
As for black listing, it could only be done in your own local area with people/ tradesmen you know.

SparkyChick · Mar 17, 2019

Yeah, the blacklisting idea raises all sorts of issues around data protection. You would have to declare that you may share your clients data with other trades people and as such you'd become a data controller under the GDPR which brings with it a shed load of baggage.

In most cases, if you're sensible, you'll just use your clients data for processing their orders and emailing them occasionally (if they elect to receive mailings from you) and nothing more.

Richy · Mar 17, 2019

Thanks for the comments.
I know over heads differ but still minimums need to be agreed.
My local area has Ssi funded competitors which enables them to undercut unfunded people like us.
When their funding runs out they will struggle to balance the books.
The Blacklist could be done on a local basis with a national list to reduce serial non payers impact.This list would need to have proof of non payment evidence etc.
Lets have minimum rates.
The £50 guy can't certify so maybe we should only certify jobs with proven legitimacy and weasel out these non tax payers .

Richy · Mar 17, 2019

Yes I get the idea,this needs to be a provided service by Napit or Niec etc,maybe its a new business idea for some clever person,I would use it.
I generally can sus a customer but sometimes they are pro blaggers.

SparkyChick · Mar 17, 2019

Richy said:
The £50 guy can't certify so maybe we should only certify jobs with proven legitimacy and weasel out these non tax payers .

The issue is, the average customer has little to no idea about notifying building control and zero clue about what paperwork they should be getting from us.

If they general public were properly clued up, it may help but there will always be those willing to forgo a little paperwork to save a few quid.

It's an admirable idea but it's simply not possible to align all sparks pricing because everyone's circumstances are different. Consider an example...

A client has asked me to change 6 light fittings. I know there are no issues that require attention on the circuit because I've already inspected the property as part of my repairs that were required following a small electrical fire. How long would you quote for that task?

Wilko · Mar 17, 2019

Hi - my smallest quote for that would likely be 2 hours.

SparkyChick · Mar 17, 2019

Wilko said:
Hi - my smallest quote for that would likely be 2 hours.

How would you quote if you were expecting wiring issues? I've been told neighbours have tried to change light fittings and have experienced big problems with zero slack on the cables.

I should perhaps have made my statement about no issue clearer... electrically there are no issues, but practically I don't know.

I don't consider myself slow, but I don't think I could maintain 20 minutes per fitting on any light swap job.

Wilko · Mar 17, 2019

Yes, I agree it's fast. But that's minimum for swapping pendants say. Having been caught out (ACM, CPC and now there's RCD rules) so I won't guesstimate lighting jobs without seeing them. A small local wiring extension / tidy up is MF box and 15 minutes labour. If plasterboard holes required to access cables, another 15 minutes to remove and replace with baton and screws. Pack, unpack, clean and certify all ++ . Just my r.o.t.

.

sparksfly · Mar 18, 2019

SparkyChick said:
The issue is, the average customer has little to no idea about notifying building control and zero clue about what paperwork they should be getting from us.

If they general public were properly clued up, it may help but there will always be those willing to forgo a little paperwork to save a few quid.

It's an admirable idea but it's simply not possible to align all sparks pricing because everyone's circumstances are different. Consider an example...

A client has asked me to change 6 light fittings. I know there are no issues that require attention on the circuit because I've already inspected the property as part of my repairs that were required following a small electrical fire. How long would you quote for that task?

I would price it at £160 ...4 hours. However, we all know too well the current trend in customers providing really nice looking light fittings that take more time to assemble then install. Manufacturers put more time into designing fittings with the emphasis on shipping more units per container than ease of installation or incompatibility with UK's extensive use of T/E.