downlighters on ground floor!

[HappyHippyDad]

I have been asked to fit downlighters to a hallway and also a kitchen all on the ground floor.

The customer would prefer me not to take up the carpet and floor boards above, but I cant see anyway around this? I might be lucky with the hallway and have them all in a straight line running the same way as the joists and manage it with cable rods but the kitchen will have the lights all over the place.

Is there anyway of doing this without taking up the floorboards?

Cheers all...

 

[onions1066]

KAS1 it can still be done without lifting the floor though...and I don't trust myself with a circular saw! lol

Dont you own a circ saw? How do you get on without one?

 

[mickys86]

Dont you own a circ saw? How do you get on without one?

Pad saw and an arm like Popeye ?? Lol

 

[telectrix]

floorboard saw.

what us old 'uns used before everyone had to have all tools powered. worse than women with dishwashers.

 

[rmc86uk]

I have just fitted 6 downlights in a bungalow, so easy access up in the loft. I charged £200 for labour and parts (6 hours and good downlights).

Dragged that one out didnt you?!

 

[telectrix]

6 hours seems about right for someone like hippy, still on the learning curve, ( no disrespect if i've got that wrong) and for us old farts who take a bit longer to get the legs motivated.

 

[shocking_eg]

6 hours for 6 lights ??

an hour per light ? LMAO !

 

[Guest55]

6 hours for 6 lights ??

an hour per light ? LMAO !

lol , and i thought i was brutal. :-D

 

[mickys86]

Post deleted - Forget I said that I can't be bothered to argue lol

 

[Stroppy]

6 hours for 6 lights ??

an hour per light ? LMAO !

No, 5 1/2 hours getting cables to the right place through key-hole surgery, and half an hour to make up and fit the lights.

This afternoon I had to extend a ring for a new socket 3 metres away from an existing one running surface (ok I spurred off a spur, but shhh!), and it took me over three hours. Why? Because I had to move wardrobe, bed, ----y glass display cabinet that had to be emptied of dozens of sh1tty little glass pigs and other smashable crap, do the wiring, then move all the junk back.

 

[shocking_eg]

To be fair jobs like that are rarely straight forward, without knowing the logistics of the job how can you comment?

i have never taken that long to retro fit 10 downlights let alone 6 ? that was with access from below only

yes i know, every job is different, but 6 hours ??? lol

 

[shocking_eg]

No, 5 1/2 hours getting cables to the right place through key-hole surgery, and half an hour to make up and fit the lights.

hah makes sense now.

if the joists are working against your cable runs id usually cut a 10" slot along the whole length of the ceiling.

then you can drill through properly, none of this clipping and putting metal plates on lol

simply screw back the board and fill / or usually leave that down to the decorator

 

[Guest55]

1 pendant per room = 20 mins.
lol
;-D

 

[shocking_eg]

1 pendant per room = 20 mins.
lol
;-D

lol.

all electrical jobs can be worked out with a few mathematic equations

 

[Stroppy]

.... and a lump hammer to get access to the joists

 

[HappyHippyDad]

6 hours for 6 lights ??

an hour per light ? LMAO !

10 mins per light. Many, many tea brakes. When I work I'm like a lightning bolt.................:2guns:

 

[Guest55]

When I work I'm like a lightning bolt.................:2guns:

........leaving everything in flames ?
snigger.
;-)

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Actually.. I am soooo slow. But he didn't mind, and I didn't mind. And you've never seen 6 downlights so beautifully aligned!

 

[Darkwood]

Explain to them that the ceiling will be extensively damaged and require re-boarding and redecorating after at extra cost, tell them you need to be accurate of fitting positions within the joist work and is hard to judge without carpets and boards up, also you need to be aware of other services like pipeworks which cant be easily guessed from below.... tell them the amount of work dust and mess would be limited if done from above where as it would be extensive the other way.... sell them the idea as we are generally all in agreement here so just brush up on you customer skills and don't let the cart lead the horse. ...... the amount of times ive been asked on a full rewire to try not damage the decor' as its only been done recently :banghead:

 

[richy3333]

Explain to them that the ceiling will be extensively damaged and require re-boarding and redecorating after at extra cost, tell them you need to be accurate of fitting positions within the joist work and is hard to judge without carpets and boards up, also you need to be aware of other services like pipeworks which cant be easily guessed from below.... tell them the amount of work dust and mess would be limited if done from above where as it would be extensive the other way.... sell them the idea as we are generally all in agreement here so just brush up on you customer skills and don't let the cart lead the horse. ...... the amount of times ive been asked on a full rewire to try not damage the decor' as its only been done recently :banghead:

It becomes like a red rag to a bull and I have to accidentally damage the decor then!

 

[Dave 85]

Explain to them that the ceiling will be extensively damaged and require re-boarding and redecorating after at extra cost, tell them you need to be accurate of fitting positions within the joist work and is hard to judge without carpets and boards up, also you need to be aware of other services like pipeworks which cant be easily guessed from below.... tell them the amount of work dust and mess would be limited if done from above where as it would be extensive the other way.... sell them the idea as we are generally all in agreement here so just brush up on you customer skills and don't let the cart lead the horse. ...... the amount of times ive been asked on a full rewire to try not damage the decor' as its only been done recently :banghead:

Nonsense
Ive done hundreds of downlighter jobs without lifting floors OR having to get the ceiling reboarded. Theres more than one way to skin a cat. I normally give the client the option but Im perfectly happy to do it from below.

 

[specs]

They look perfect Telectrix, Thanks.
had a quick scan on ebay and screwfix but cant find them? Where do you get them from and what are they called?

I picked up a load from B& Q,They are called Safeplates, i found them in a dusty old box next to joist hangers etc, they do them in a few sizes. I find them very handy, even our gas safe bloke uses them now.

 

[Darkwood]

Nonsense
Ive done hundreds of downlighter jobs without lifting floors OR having to get the ceiling reboarded. Theres more than one way to skin a cat. I normally give the client the option but Im perfectly happy to do it from below.

Didn't say its impossible was referring to OP's instant where customer seems to be calling the shots without appreciating what might be the most economical and easiest way, ive had plenty of similar customers and just giving them the various options against each other is usually enough to persuade them IF it will be beneficial to do it from above. Of course if your going with the joist run, with a plasterboard ceiling its no hassle to fit a row in a corridor and each situe to its own. Was never saying its impossible and if the customer is willing to pay for the extra then so be it, it just seems overkill because they don't want a carpet lifting.

 

[rmc86uk]

And you've never seen 6 downlights so beautifully aligned!

Like this?

 

[shocking_eg]

Ergh
Gu10

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Like this?

How did you find out where I'd been working!!

 

[rmc86uk]

It's a job I helped my mate on. The bloke who lives there was determined to have twenty downlights in that room! Obviously the centre row fell right on a joist! My mate was determined to drill the joist out but having fire rated lights it wouldn't have done the structure any good! Plus when he initially marked them out they were ****ed as anything! In the end we got him down to sixteen lights and rid of the centre row! I'm sure my mate was ****ed up though!

 

[Guest55]

Ergh
Gu10

whats wrong with gu10's ? less faffing than with transformers and jb's ;-)
anyways , from what i know , 12v halogens will the next type of lamp to be phased out after gls bulbs.
in fact any lamp with less than a catagory C energy rating is at risk from the EU banstick.
and im not kidding.
;-)

 

[stuartcourt]

And I like the fact that if customer cant afford L.E.Ds or low energy they can easily be replaced with no messing around when they are ready

 

[Darkwood]

Well if the pics anything to go by and your mate hitting the centre joist then hope you have the required joist clearance on the other fittings ..... I wouldn't be working with anyone who thought it was ok to drill a joist out and stick a gu10 in .... I've seen the effects of such dumb practices myself.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

if a ceiling is being boarded over then its nowt that a hammer cant sort...just bang some holes through where you need to get cables across...
the alternative is stitching across...

 

[rmc86uk]

Well if the pics anything to go by and your mate hitting the centre joist then hope you have the required joist clearance on the other fittings ..... I wouldn't be working with anyone who thought it was ok to drill a joist out and stick a gu10 in .... I've seen the effects of such dumb practices myself.

As said we managed to get rid of the centre row of lights so we didn't end up drilling the joist. Good thing is the builder agreed to re-boarding and plastering the whole ceiling again instead of just patching up.

 

[shocking_eg]

gu10's are awfull.


horrible light output, lamps blow everyday ! etc...

low voltage is best.. if you must have halogen

retro fit LED lamps are generally rubbish and they don't dim well

i dont fit either anymore

the price of aurora's / halers LED fittings are now so cheap, it doesn't warrant fitting non led fittings anymore

- - - Updated - - -

As said we managed to get rid of the centre row of lights so we didn't end up drilling the joist. Good thing is the builder agreed to re-boarding and plastering the whole ceiling again instead of just patching up.

might as well had ripped it down then.

still a bodge job under the floor lol

 

[Darkwood]

As said we managed to get rid of the centre row of lights so we didn't end up drilling the joist. Good thing is the builder agreed to re-boarding and plastering the whole ceiling again instead of just patching up.

When there's more holes than ceiling then we no longer call it patching

 

[specs]

looks a bit hit and miss, if buider had agreed to re-board and plaster i would have dropped the ceiling , looks like plenty of room to do it, and safer i think than drilling into a ceiling when you don't know whats up there. Or drill series of pilot holes (drillbit not holesaw ) find joists, ping lines (chalkline ) , mark out light locations (between joists) , drill pilot holes (just to check). If all is well , cut holes and pray the last trade to lift upstairs boards didnt sweep all their debris in there or plumber/electrician didn't lay pipes etc on top of boards you are about to cut holes in ( i think we have all seen it ). Last job i did , dropped ceiling , left 300mm gap round edge , put in 20 led downlighters, stuck colour changing strip around perimeter, effect was good. room to run cables safely and easily. If i can't see what is up there i will not entertain job, not worth the worry.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

All fitted.... and in a record time of 5 hrs! :redface: 2 jump joists which I managed to reach by taking up lino and floorboards in bathroom rather than making lots of holes in the ceiling. Wago fitted neatly (used them for the first time, I like them).

The only thing that was a bit annoying was one of the lights didn't fit snuggly against the ceiling when pushed up as the springs didn't seem that strong. If I had access from above this would be easy to remedy.

Does anyone else find that the springs dont always hold the lights up with a nice tight fit against the ceiling?

 

[Stroppy]

Yes, they are a real pain in the botty, but trap a finger between a spring and the light when the spring should have the least tension on it and oh don't you know about it!

 

[Spudnik]

If the light is not pulling up against the ceiling it could one or both of two things...


Spring is hitting a joist close by

or, the spring is being held of off the back of the plaster board by some debris etc...


However, sometimes it can be cheapo fittings.

 

[telectrix]

or sometimes the cables are up against an obstruction and push down on the fitting. seen this mainly when some idle bugger has taken T/Es into the fitting, instead of switching to flex (i use line enclosures, but click connectors or various types of JB are also acceptable)