Electric shock

[wallyanker]

I have a really silly question that has caused arguments at my work. The senario is:

I am standing on a solid concrete floor in an industrial unit and I touch the live wire from a 230v socket. I do not touch anything else, the neutral and earth are untouched. Can this give me an electric shock??

Please can someone give me a straight answer with reasons.
Thanks

 

[Sintra]

I think it would depend on your choice of footware.


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[wallyanker]

Normal rubber soled shoes

 

[Sintra]

Providing your shoes are insulating you from the general mass of earth then you will not receive a shock as there is no return path.


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[pushrod]

If your total resistance to earth is greater than 230kilo-ohms then you will be subject to less than 1mA and so should feel nothing. 1 mA supposedly being the smallest detectable current

 

[GrannySmiff]

Woooo no more safe isolation.

 

[cantabrian9]

next time put your f-----g wellies on!!!!!!!! NO PROBLEM

 

[Darkwood]

I sincerly hope this is all staying in the hypothetical world as what you will find in the reality of our world boots / shoes etc are made up of many substances including rubber but you will find that unless you have bought special footware then general purpose work boots and trainers cant be relied on to protect you as moisture as well as contaminants introduced in their manufacturing and what is picked up in the environment will render them inneffective to keep you safe, even with the correct high insulated footware you can render them useless by walking through a puddle so i hope you keep this one in the discussion world only. I have received a shock in this method and the boots i was wearing were special high resistance but 3months of oil and grease from factory floors rendered them useless so as i see it yes you would get a good shock.

 

[mogga]

I was thinking the same Darky it would be good if the OP said he was Ok wouldnt it??

 

[Darkwood]

You could always stand on a uninsulated bulldog clip and the other one on your finger and megger yourself to check your theory as opposed to doing it for real it might ease your mind and answer your query, but my disclaimer is do not do this as it may give you a shock and i wouldnt recommend it at all just a humerous thought........ ps let us know the result :O /

 

[accordfire]

Yeah, THEORETICALLY.....

But I'm not about to prove it for you, let's put it that way......

It might just find you out in terms of a latent heart condition you knew nothing about.

 

[wallyanker]

It was just a theoretical exercise, my arguement was that if i was insulated from the mass of earth, ie, rubber boots, stood on non conducting material, then there was no path to earth so i could touch a live wire (only the live, not combined with neutral or earth) and I would not feel anything. Other people at work argued that 230v is substantial enough to make its way to earth through what ever i was stood on and therefore result a shock.

 

[wallyanker]

Just to confirm, this is all theoretical and will no be performed as a practical exercise...lol

 

[Marvo]

Your theory is good, if you're insulated you can touch live and not get a whack. The practice is a different ballgame, you're invariably surrounded by good enough earths to give you a shock.

 

[J@mes]

having been in this situation - rubber soled work boots stood on a painted concrete floor and touching a live conductor - I can confirm that I DID receive an electric shock!

 

[malcolmsanford]

If you ever worked on live bus bars chambers, obviously after having done all your risk assessments and such, WE all had brand spanking new rubber wellies out of the bag, the sparks forman still put down rubber mats, all drills which in those days were 220v class I had the earths removed, and I still say to this day |I got a belt

 

[SimpleSimon]

Does the resistance of the human body increase the fatter you are?

 

[accordfire]

Does the resistance of the human body increase the fatter you are?

No.

Potentially reduces, as with fat comes water retention.

 

[Darkwood]

Does the resistance of the human body increase the fatter you are?

As well as shape size etc body resistance can alter dramatically according to temp, humidity your general health, how tired you are etc etc it has too many variables to estimate acccurately and can vary from hour to hour or day to day but is usually at its lowest when having a bath or shower or swimming, this is when your at greater risk from the damage caused by electric hence the strict rules associated with these areas.

 

[nickblake]

In theory as has been said you shouldnt as there is no path to earth hence why birds dont get fried on wires , but even with the best insulated shoes you may still get a shock damp from the atmospher etc , i did answer a question in another post i was up a fibre glass ladder and was holding the reflector of a son lamp when i spotted the L and E was reversed i was holding a live piece of metal but never felt a thing, a good reason why you should always use fibre glass ladders and have good quality foot wear well insulated , forget the trainers that most sparks wear i was the lucky one,SAFE ISOLATION IS A MUST AS ONE MISTAKE COULD BE YOUR LAST

 

[Darkwood]

It was just a theoretical exercise, my arguement was that if i was insulated from the mass of earth, ie, rubber boots, stood on non conducting material, then there was no path to earth so i could touch a live wire (only the live, not combined with neutral or earth) and I would not feel anything. Other people at work argued that 230v is substantial enough to make its way to earth through what ever i was stood on and therefore result a shock.

If you are adequately insulated from mass earth and you touched live/line then you will have the same potential as the live/line wire but as it has no path to exit your body then it will not harm you it will only harm you if you form a circuit with adequate current flow to damage your body.

 

[telectrix]

Does the resistance of the human body increase the fatter you are?

nope, resistance increases the taller you are. the fatter you are, the greater the cross-sectional area, so less resistance.

 

[telectrix]

If you are adequately insulated from mass earth and you touched live/line then you will have the same potential as the live/line wire but as it has no path to exit your body then it will not harm you it will only harm you if you form a circuit with adequate current flow to damage your body.

depends on what constitutes adequately insulated. personally, i would not like to be a guinea pig for testing the insulation integrity of a pair of reeboks with 230volts applied to one of my extremities

 

[Darkwood]

depends on what constitutes adequately insulated. personally, i would not like to be a guinea pig for testing the insulation integrity of a pair of reeboks with 230volts applied to one of my extremities

As this post is hypothetical i was thus saying adequately insulated as in lets say totally just to explain that you would become the same potential as the line voltage if you then touched it i wasnt going into the argument of how you would adequately insulate yourself it was just for the theory of the question posted.

 

[telectrix]

agreed. i was being facetious. if one was to jump up and grab an overhead live cable without touching ground, theoretically no harm would result, as you say. no circuit--no current flow

 

[rocker]

I've been in this situation once or twice... you won't get a belt but you will feel an unpleasant 'buzzing' sensation, at least that's what's happened to me on several occasions... i've had a proper belt once or twice (when I've been 'earthed') and it's a thoroughly different and more unpleasant experience. I guess in theory you shopuldn't feel anything if you're totally insulated, but in practice, you do.

Don't go relying on your boots, though. you could have a lovely brand-new-on-today pair, but they ain't going to stop you stepping on nails etc and making yourself lovely and earthed. You could be wet. You could have something caught on your ankle. You may even have a bit of twin snagged on your shirt, dragging along the floor.....

 

[pushrod]

However... if your body has a certain amount of capacitance a current could flow while you were initially charging up - possible or not _ what do you think???

edit maybe responsible for that buzz, Rocker?

 

[telectrix]

E=mc thingy then.E= energy dissipated. m = mass of your body, c = capacitance. Einstein, my boy, you got it all wrong

 

[jaresquire]

Defo, and can also be increased by di-electric materials between you and earth. Most di-electrics are good insulators btw.

 

[jeremy]

Apart from insulation or lack of, to allow current to "flow out your feet" how dry and thick skinned are your hands. I've had bad earth tingles through the back of my hands but (stupidly, I know) having then touched with finger tips, nothing.