Latest on the court challenge!!!

[leroy]

Morning all,

Don't know if it helps but I've just spoken to the DECC about the FIT rate (did try speak to Mr Barker himself but he wouldn't take my call!)... The guy I spoke to said the current FIT rate is 21p and have been told that they don't see it changing (sounded like he knew more than he was telling me) Also that the results from the cosultation won't be released for another 2/3 weeks!

 

[Eco Deal]

hmmmm are we selling at 21p then ? is it not 21.1p

 

[SolarCity]

The guy I spoke to said the current FIT rate is 21p and have been told that they don't see it changing (sounded like he knew more than he was telling me) Also that the results from the cosultation won't be released for another 2/3 weeks!

What a frustrating start to the year. Remember September when everything was simple?

 

[Eco Deal]

I spoke to REAL and NAPIT they could not tell me much I rang DECC but was in a que I hung up in the end !!!

But I have just had an enquiry so people are looking but I had to tell them to call back in a week or two as we are not selling.

 

[JulianC]

Well, since the rate will not drop below 21p between now and April (DECC did at least confirm this if I remember correctly) and I've got all my January pricing info, I am cracking on and quoting for systems based on the 21p rate (with the usual caveats). Can't be waiting for those muppets in charge to sort themselves out.....

 

[SRE]

What if there's no money in the pot and 21p isn't confirmed? Big risk to take - I'm waiting, I can't afford the law suit if my customers take me to court, imagine 3500kwh/pa x 21p x 25 years - that's a lot of money.

I am more inclined to be cautious though

 

[leroy]

The number I rang was 0300 060 4000, option 3 will put you through to an "advisor". They have been given a FAQ sheet from the FIT team with various answers on so will be able to answer some of these questions.

Might be worth a ring for the more cautious of us

 

[SolarCity]

If the FITs rate is 21p and they don't see this changing, can they enlighten us further on why they think this is the case? Exactly what do they make of the court ruling? What will they do if their appeal is unsucessful? What will they do if the FITs money runs out? How long do they think it will be before we get solid figures? What is the grounds for their appeal?

So many vitally important questions. Why isn't Barker answering us?

 

[JulianC]

I can only present the facts and figures to the customer as they currently stand (ie, might be 21p, might be more, could conceivably be less!). I am making no promises or guarantees. It's the customer's decision at the end of the day and to be honest, I don't expect any orders to come trickling in until we get some firm news from Mr. C-rated and his cronies anyway. As I see it I have two options at the moment: quote on 21p but present the possibilities to the customer, or do nothing. In the absence of other work at the moment and there being sod all on TV, I'm opting for the former. However, a family of long tailed ---- have just landed on my feeder so I may watch them for a bit. Easily distracted? Me? Ooh look, a squirrel...

 

[The Launderer]

What a shambles. There are lots of questions and no answers.

1. Assuming government win their appeal is the rate going to be 21p from the 1st April or could it be much less?
2. How long is the appeal process going to take?
3. If the government lose does that mean the old rate remains? If so for how long?
4. Is there any chance of the C category proposal being implemented?
5. If the budget is blown does that mean the end of FITs anyway?

We got into Renewables because we were under the impression that it was the future - now beginning to wonder. Seen a report yesterday that says only Malta and Luxembourg have lower levels of renewables that UK. Just how seriously is the Government taking the whole issue?

 

[SRE]

I'm bogged down with tax returns - I could do with a hand

 

[JulianC]

Send 'em down - as I tell all my customers, my work is appalling but my rates are reasonable!

 

[moggy1968]

the love bugs on the telly :0)

 

[Coleman]

What's going on?? It's doin my head In not knowing what's happening! When is it likely that we'll know what the out come is?

 

[Eco Deal]

malta we love malta

 

[BruceB]

pm 4 Jan 12 statement by DECC:
Feed-in tariff appeal: Statement by DECC spokesperson - Department of Energy and Climate Change
Grounds for appeal have been lodged.

 

[Somecamel]

pm 4 Jan 12 statement by DECC:
Feed-in tariff appeal: Statement by DECC spokesperson - Department of Energy and Climate Change
Grounds for appeal have been lodged.

I can't believe the audacity of these people!! the last paragraph states

'We have also made the point that the judicial review was premature as no decision has yet been taken, and a decision will only be taken after a full analysis of the responses to the consultation.”

Do they even live on the same planet as us mere mortals!!

The JR was made because they brought the cut off date in before the consultation had even ended!!

I'm mad!!​

 

[Yanman]

I wonder how much this is costing us the tax payer as well as us as the installer. They don't have to worry how much they spend on court fees cos its not their money anyway.

Its just gonna drag on and on. Just hope we have businessess after all this.

 

[The Launderer]

Are they deliberately trying to sabotage the industry?

Why are they prolonging this whole fiasco. The grounds for appeal could have been established within 24 hours of the judges decision. Why wait till the last minute of the final day before lodging?

Also, why is government minister, Greg Barker offering to sort the whole mess out on twitter - is that another attempt to muddy the waters? I would like Jeremy Leggett to consider accepting his twitter offer on the provision that it's all agreed this week and we can all get back to work.

 

[Somecamel]

It stinks!! I'm finding it very hard to keep my tweets to GB and DECC clean.

 

[Somecamel]

Why are they prolonging this whole fiasco. The grounds for appeal could have been established within 24 hours of the judges decision. Why wait till the last minute of the final day before lodging?

They are trying to prolong it for as long as they possibly can to destroy us. I for one could now do with having the 43p back until April to pay off all my bills for this month! Still got to pay staff

 

[whinmoor]

There's no real reason to expect Greg Barker to speed things along. His six figure salary as an MP is guaranteed until the next election and he's a millionaire anyway so why should he care about little guys like us? The longer he can stall the industry for, the more of us go bust and the closer it gets to April when a much lower FIT rate can be introduced.

 

[SolarCity]

I read somewhere that as much as 1% of people are psychopaths. I wonder how many of them find their way into government.

 

[TedM]

The DECC appeal document is available here: UK government grounds of appeal on solar subsidy court ruling | Environment | guardian.co.uk

 

[mdovey]

I must confess being confused - I thought that the court case rested on the fact that the proposed deadline was in advanced of the end of the consultation - i.e. was retrospective. That this *is* retrospective is quite clear by considering someone asking the question "what fit will I get if I installed solar panels today?" on say the 14th December 2011. Even without the court-case, DECC could not have given a definitive answer since that would have pre-empted the consultation process. However, without a definitive answer, installers risk mis-selling or violating REA regulations.

However, nothing in the document requesting an appeal refers to this!

Is there a copy of the actual ruling from Mitting J somewhere?

However, the appeal document does confirm that the ruling was to permit a judicial review - which (I think) is not the same as over turning the consultation. i.e. if the appeal fails (or had DECC not appealed), we would still be no clearer on the FIT since we would be waiting on the result of the judicial review.

 

[Earthstore]

What... Just read the document, and part 1 section 2 does not make sense!
Was he not in court because he slashed the FIT for PV? Or did he somehow manage to include all systems that produce electricity without telling the Industry.
If/when he losses this one it should be "off with his head".

 

[Somecamel]

and here's a link to the rules on amending feed in tariffs

Energy Act 2008

 

[TedM]

DECC's appeal is intended to attempt to overturn the decision to allow the Judicial Review to take place.

Plenty in DECC's appeal doesn't make sense. i.e. they seem to have conveniently forgotten that the entire intent of the FiTs scheme was just to incentivise early adopters so that future costs of PV could be reduced and that future installations could be achieved at a market cost that then would not require any FiTs sibsidy. That is to say, the FiTs scheme was designed so as to remove its own need to exist. The only unanswered (and now probably unanswerable) question is whether £867 million is enough to achieve that goal.

If it is enough then it is arguable that it doesn't matter how many households actually benefit in the short term, as everyone will be able to benefit in the longer term.

If this argument is crucial to DECC's point then it is also a solid argument that they should have reduced the tariffs earlier.

 

[flamefix]

Thanks for the Recent Posts.

The appeal argument appears to revolve around section 41 although in Section 42 sub(2) it does appear the Secretary has the right to consult after the cut.
(2)Subsection (1) may be satisfied by consultation before, as well as by consultation after, the passing of this Act.


Ted, unfortunately that could be seen as a tenable argument "it is arguable that it doesn't matter how many households actually benefit in the short term, as everyone will be able to benefit in the longer term. " because it is probably truer to say if the scheme ran for longer because it was properly managed and FIT rate reduced proportionately and steadily then the scheme could arguably prevent the boom and bust and ensure over a longer period a better understanding of the scheme to the layman. As is the case with the better managed German Scheme.

You are indeed right though in your second Para, originally there was no cap and then a cap placed and no thought to regulating the FIT rate despite advice to do so. Now we are where we are and it's a bloody shambles and it's all the Governments own making as per normal. I don't see this ending well personally.

 

[powervan]

Well lads all ive gained from SOLAR PV is non reundable money!bad suppliers!paperwork!stress!SHINGLES! and government bull---t im so glad it was only a sideline! i feel for u lads where its ur main business!