Rcd not tripping and ramp test more than 30ma

[Neil01]

Hi I was doing a EICR today and went to do an RCD test will not trip when I set it to Auto come out more than 300Ms at 1 times. Did a ramp test came out 33MA what would I class this on the report any ideas would be grateful

thank neil

 

[Sintra]

Were you testing the RCD directly on its terminals or at an outlet?

 

[Octopus]

Had you disconnected all the loads? What make was the RCD?

 

[Andy78]

Hi I was doing a EICR today and went to do an RCD test will not trip when I set it to Auto come out more than 300Ms at 1 times. Did a ramp test came out 33MA what would I class this on the report any ideas would be grateful

thank neil

That would depend on what the RCD is protecting, whether it is used for additional or fault protection, the mA rating of the RCD, and all other factors that may be relevant to the situation observed during the inspection.

 

[Pete999]

Hi I was doing a EICR today and went to do an RCD test will not trip when I set it to Auto come out more than 300Ms at 1 times. Did a ramp test came out 33MA what would I class this on the report any ideas would be grateful

thank neil

33MA Blimey

 

[Skimpy Wan]

What installation type was the earthing system?

 

[Neil01]

It's a Hager board RCD circuits are sockets up and down and shower. TNCS earthing tested at a socket there is nothing on as House is empty but MCBs where all on

 

[davesparks]

Does it operate on the test button?

 

[Geordie Spark]

It's a Hager board RCD circuits are sockets up and down and shower. TNCS earthing tested at a socket there is nothing on as House is empty but MCBs where all on

Aye, but where were they all on??

 

[Neil01]

Yes I operates on the RCD Test button but not through my meter I'd thought it was faulty RCD specially with it being old

 

[davesparks]

Faulty RCD is quite possible, but if you are just carrying out an EICR does it matter? iF it did not trip in time then it has failed the test, so you code it accordingly, whether it fails to trip through being faulty or through the effect of another fault it will be recorded the same on the report won't it?
You record an observation that the RCD fails to trip within the required time and code accordingly. It's up to the person who does the remedial works to investigate it.

 

[Skimpy Wan]

Agree with Dave as it's a EICR, only, at this stage.

 

[davesparks]

Yes I operates on the RCD Test button but not through my meter I'd thought it was faulty RCD specially with it being old

I'd be inclined to think that there is a fault somewhere causing this if the test button works.

 

[Neil01]

I'm only doing The EICR but was unsure if what code I'd give it C3 or F1, iv thought putting 12months on cert as well

 

[davesparks]

I'm only doing The EICR but was unsure if what code I'd give it C3 or F1, iv thought putting 12months on cert as well

F1???
Coding is a pretty simple process, if it is immediately dangerous (danger present in normal working conditions) then C1, if it is potentially dangerous (usually something which becomes dangerous under fault conditions) then C2 or if an improvement is recommended which could improve safety then C3.

So a protective device which does not work is not an immediate danger when the installation is working normally, but it is dangerous if a fault develops.

What do you mean by putting 12months on the cert?

 

[Neil01]

A F1 for further investigation myself I was going to put a C3 and state RCD does not operate within the trip times and place no more than 12 months till next test property is in the middle of house sale thanks

 

[davesparks]

A F1 for further investigation myself I was going to put a C3 and state RCD does not operate within the trip times and place no more than 12 months till next test property is in the middle of house sale thanks

I've never come across an F1 code before! I've seen people write FI for further investigation sometimes, is that what you mean? As far as this fault goes it is potentially dangerous and requires some investigation, so you code it according to the worst part of that situation which is a C2.
It is not a C3, it is quite clearly something which requires fixing, not just a recommendation for something which could be done to improve safety.
It is different to a situation where no RCD is fitted and you are recommending that one be installed to improve safety.

12months is a ridiculous retest time for a domestic installation, the recommended test interval is 10years for domestic but can be less if you feel that it is required.
The retest period is conditional on all C1 and C2 observations being rectified.

The fact that the house is being sold is irrelevant to the EICR other than maybe writing it down in the box titled reason for carrying out the EICR.

 

[Toonlad]

It's a Hager board RCD circuits are sockets up and down and shower. TNCS earthing tested at a socket there is nothing on as House is empty but MCBs where all on

so the rcd was not tested directly !!

Post 2 had it called first imo

 

[bigspark17]

Its a C2.. Unsatisfactory on report. But you should be testing an rcd on outgoing terminals with all loads disconected.

 

[Neil01]

Il put it down as C2 I am going back to test at the RCD itself with loads disconnected and see what happens, iv megger the all circuits and no issues on low readings. When I tested it at socket 1 times came up 300ms so that's why I done Ramp test. I suspected it was a faulty RCD. Thanks for your help guys

 

[davesparks]

Il put it down as C2 I am going back to test at the RCD itself with loads disconnected and see what happens, iv megger the all circuits and no issues on low readings. When I tested it at socket 1 times came up 300ms so that's why I done Ramp test. I suspected it was a faulty RCD. Thanks for your help guys

Sorry, I just assumed (obviously incorrectly) that you had carried out the test properly in the first place.
Don't code anything until you have carried out the test correctly and then think about coding it.

Why would you suspect a faulty RCD from an incorrectly carried out test? You might as well IR test a socket circuit with appliances plugged in and conclude that a cable has degraded from a low reading!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

Sorry, I just assumed (obviously incorrectly) that you had carried out the test properly in the first place.
Don't code anything until you have carried out the test correctly and then think about coding it.

Why would you suspect a faulty RCD from an incorrectly carried out test? You might as well IR test a socket circuit with appliances plugged in and conclude that a cable has degraded from a low reading!!

Bought an MFT off Fleabay & it didn't have any instructions with it???

 

[telectrix]

me and geordie are old, bu tnot faulty. senile perhaps.

 

[Geordie Spark]

me and geordie are old, bu tnot faulty. senile perhaps.

I'm sorry, have we met before?

Do I know you?

Who am I?

:wheelchair:

 

[marc8]

#21 some RCD units can be tested out at the load side with appliances plugged in & the readings are correct in fact I know of one sparks that had everything disconnected & tested his RCD's at the board & found that he had suspect readings (FAULTY RCD) bells rang out & when he tested second RCD on same board alarm bells rang.
After f... about a bit then re-tested with load on & got the results for the RCD & all ok, think this has been debated before on an early post.
maybe new to testing might have used the forum for some advice & not a bashing. (8 posts)

 

[Risteard]

the recommended test interval is 10years for domestic but can be less if you feel that it is required.

In fairness that is only the recommended initial frequency. There is no recommendation for a subsequent periodic inspection as to what the reinspection interval should be.

 

[itselectric]

When installing an RCD, there is always a sticker informing the consumer to test regularly by pressing the test button, I have been out of the game now for a couple of years (retired), so things may have changed, but in all my years I have not come across a customer who has done this. The switch is held in mechanically, so in my opinion I would have tested the trip a few times before doing a final check, then act accordingly.

 

[Risteard]

The switch is held in mechanically, so in my opinion I would have tested the trip a few times before doing a final check, then act accordingly.

The problem with doing that is that someone isn't going to press the Test button half a dozen times before every earth fault.

 

[itselectric]

The problem with doing that is that someone isn't going to press the Test button half a dozen times before every earth fault.

Then the label is a waste of time, but I do take your point.

 

[Octopus]

Then the label is a waste of time, but I do take your point.

Along with the mixed cable colours.

Lets all do the planet a favour and stop using them!

 

[Risteard]

Then the label is a waste of time, but I do take your point.

Not really, because they should be regularly tested.

But if an RCD fails to operate when tested then it is not recommended to keep pressing the test button and retesting until it passes. The RCD has failed.

 

[PEG]

Not really, because they should be regularly tested.

But if an RCD fails to operate when tested then it is not recommended to keep pressing the test button and retesting until it passes. The RCD has failed.

If the current stream of politicians wittering about the EU,have only taught us one thing,it is some things get worse,the more you press them...:smilewinkgrin:

 

[telectrix]

If the current stream of politicians wittering about the EU,have only taught us one thing,it is some things get worse,the more you press them...:smilewinkgrin:

wittering. i like that word.on a par with chuntering and blathering. all words that remind me of geordies. :lipsrsealed2:

 

[YoungScud]

If the current stream of electricians wittering about the EU,have only taught us one thing,it is some things get worse,the more you press them...:smilewinkgrin:

Fixed it for you

 

[Dave OCD]

wittering. i like that word.on a par with chuntering and blathering. all words that remind me of geordies. :lipsrsealed2:

Got a small job for a retired Geordie sparks tomorrow, he always gets me in for bits and pieces as he's nearly 80 now. This fella has a bit of a stammer, reminds me of a Geordie version of Arkwright. :biggrin:

 

[PEG]

Dave,are you far enough down-country,to tell him"wats th urry? tamarras not touched yet,my larver..."

A particular favourite of mine,told to my mother-in-law,by a St.Ives roofer,concerning her leaking porch roof...

He returned 4 months later...and without a shred of irony,asked her to put the kettle on :shocked3:

 

[marc8]

Hi All

got call 2 days ago customer saying cooker was not working, it had tripped a couple of times & the fact that they were all RCBO's but unusually another RCBO also tripped, I mentioned that they are separate except for the common N connection as single pole.

But really interesting part was that I pressed the test button & nothing happened it did not work, isolated circuit removed cooker switch & as I removed found burned wires & almost touching through, separated wires & established power again to test RCBO working fine no problem.
it seems under certain conditions that the RCBO will not operate think the coil must have been must have been saturated for the test button not to work.
full range of tests for the circuit & ok, when i disconnected the cooker cables from the high level JB sticking out of wall so I could restore power until I cooker run new cable in. light not tripping also but did mention if someone had pinched a Neutral that this could cause it but will test for that when I go back.

 

[Golden_Boy]

I'd be inclined to think that there is a fault somewhere causing this if the test button works.

The test button connects a resistor of approx 4k into the circuit to cause an imbalance of about 60ma. So it will trip pretty quickly.
If you measure between the line and neutral with the button pushed in you can measure the applied resistance ( disconect it all first though !! )

 

[Skimpy Wan]

On this principle. Would it therfore also confirm a faulty RCD if the test button didn't work and when tested, as shown in the picture, no resistance is given?

 

[Dave OCD]

Dave,are you far enough down-country,to tell him"wats th urry? tamarras not touched yet,my larver..."

A particular favourite of mine,told to my mother-in-law,by a St.Ives roofer,concerning her leaking porch roof...

He returned 4 months later...and without a shred of irony,asked her to put the kettle on :shocked3:

Hahaha yes mate, I've been known to mention kettles if no offers are forthcoming after half an hour at the job.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hahaha yes mate, I've been known to mention kettles if no offers are forthcoming after half an hour at the job.

One of the sparks I worked with during my apprenticeship once unscrewed the plug top on the kettle in front of the customer and looked at me and said the fuse seems to be good lol

 

[Dave OCD]

One of the sparks I worked with during my apprenticeship once unscrewed the plug top on the kettle in front of the customer and looked at me and said the fuse seems to be good lol

Excellent ! Can you remember if the extreme hint got the required result Lee ? :biggrin:

 

[Leesparkykent]

Excellent ! Can you remember if the extreme hint got the required result Lee ? :biggrin:

Lol yeah It did actually haha. He used to do and come out with all sorts of stuff lol. He didn't take any sugar in his tea so when the customer's asked if he did after offering him a brew he would say no its ok there will be enough sugar on the biscuits lol.

 

[Andy78]

I always chuck a cheeky hint in if they are a bit slow on the offer. "I'm just about to have the power off but I can wait 5 minutes if you were about to get the kettle on" Usually does the trick.

 

[Golden_Boy]

On this principle. Would it therfore also confirm a faulty RCD if the test button didn't work and when tested, as shown in the picture, no resistance is given?

If the internal resistor is open circuit or the test button is not making contact then the test button would not work. However the RCD may still be OK. Thats why the tests are so important.

 

[Skimpy Wan]

If the test button doesn't work wouldn't you change the RCD? Personally, I would so that it can be tested by the end user.

 

[DPG]

If the test button doesn't work wouldn't you change the RCD? Personally, I would so that it can be tested by the end user.

Not just the end user - how would YOU be able to test it fully if the test button didn't work? Daz

 

[Skimpy Wan]

I can plug an MFT in and do a ramp test. The end user can't. Therefore I can confirm that the RCD trips within the parameters of its design, but it would need replacing to check the device regularly.

 

[DPG]

I can plug an MFT in and do a ramp test. The end user can't. Therefore I can confirm that the RCD trips within the parameters of its design, but it would need replacing to check the device regularly.

Checking operation of the test button is one of YOUR essential tests of an RCD also though. Daz

 

[YoungScud]

Functional test